Time for a New Performance-Based MCSE Cert Test??

[rasdebol]

Reading these threads I see much frustration out there..You feel the MSCE is watered-down..lost it's value as more and more "paper" MCSE's hit the street...Well , maybe it's time for a PERFORMANCE based MSCE cert. Something like the Cisco CCIE...Here's the gear, set up a network from scratch, load the OS, set up an Active Directory or two or three, add an Internet server or remote access, set up policies/security or whatever.. The candidate has a few hours to show he can ACTUALLY do what is required
...POOF!
Overnight the MSCE's being certified would be cut by 2/3 or more(I suspect)! Those that remain might actually be worth those higher salaries and employer's might actually get what they think they are getting when hiring an "MSCE"! What do YOU think?? Are YOU listening, Microsoft??

 

[webmaster999]

I agree with you 100%. I had this idea a while back and I think it is ABSOLUTELY GREAT that someone voiced it finally!!! Thanks!!!

If the paper MCSEs were to be gone...POOF...then my job would be that much more easier, because I would then know that whoever I hire into my IT department as Junior Admins, etc. would KNOW HOW TO DO THE JOB AND DO IT WELL!!!

I am so frustrated by the lack of experienced personnel out there for grabs. I hire a couple of interns and they don't know the first thing about the computers they are working on (Win2K) even though they hold about 5 certs apiece!!!!

Something MUST be done.

Matt A+, MCP, MCP+I, MCSE Windows NT 4.0, MCSE Windows 2000 Early Achiever with Security Emphasis

 

[jtb]

Well, there is room for such a cert. Certainly, there are folks I know who had trouble with the tests but have more than enough knowledge and experience to keep an enterprise up and running.

For the moment, let's ignore the cheaters and braindumpers.

But the recent reversal by Microsoft shows that they're not interested, in the slightest, in organizing a means of reducing the number of MCSEs. Part of their power comes from having a large number of folks who (for whatever reason) want to work on Microsoft Operating Systems.

While I'm not sure what the correct remedy should be, perhaps one of you could put together an agenda based on the core MCSE tests that potential employers should follow to identify strong candidates... understanding that the additional cost to hire the right'uns this way may exceed the cost of hiring and firing the wrong'uns...

Good Luck!

JTB
Senior Infrastructure Consultant
MCSE-NT4, MCP+I, CCNA, CCDA,
CTE, MCIWD, i-Net+, Network+
(MCSE-W2K, MCIWA, SCSA, SCNA in progress)

 

[webmaster999]

JTB,

Thanks for the response.

I don't mean to poke fun, but you get a big WOW from me at the number of certs after your name!!! Are you 72 and still a professional student?

I must ask though, what was the FIRST, the VERY FIRST cert you ever acheived? Now look back over the __ years since then and decide, honestly, how much about that subject you REALLY remember (at least what you crammed to pass the test). See what I mean?

Not that I am hacking them down or anything, there are SOME good ones out there. However, they can study, pass tests, hang some M$ graffiti on their walls and call themselves the best IT people in the world - and maybe even get hired and do a good job - but they seem to forget what they learned so quickly. Too quickly. And I am left with a paper MCSE that knows less every time he picks up his paystub.

I hope we see some reform out there soon. I for one am already implementing something along the lines of the first thread for checking all new hires. I have been burned too many times and now I am fed-up and so I test them ALL before they even get an interview. I have a Junior (who fortunately was ONE good find out of many) who administers the test and sends the majority of them home with some nice parting gifts. That reduces my strain and pain in hiring.

Any other thoughts out there, anybody?

Matt A+, MCP, MCP+I, MCSE Windows NT 4.0, MCSE Windows 2000 Early Achiever with Security Emphasis

 

[jtb]

Matt,

Thanks for the "wow". My joints do creak now and again--but I'm farther away from retiring than you suggest. I recently (1999) tried to get hired away from my current employer and was repeatedly told by folks who didn't ask technical questions that I wasn't technical enough.

Boy was I steamed... And surprised... And embarrassed...

Well, I basically went out and researched the available certs on the stuff I do and took and passed tests to give me an MCSE, Net+, and i-Net+ in 2000, studied Cisco stuff and passed CCNA/CCDA , took the GartnerGroup CTE training and test, and passed the Site Designer and E-Commerce Designer tests in 2001. Now I'm going through the study and practice to be a W2K MCSE. I've got plans after that, too...

I realize alot of this is due to damaged pride, lack of self-esteem, and so on... However, I actually have been using these skills in my work over the last several years.

Have a great day!!!

JTB
Senior Infrastructure Consultant
MCSE-NT4, MCP+I, CCNA, CCDA,
CTE, MCIWD, i-Net+, Network+
(MCSE-W2K, MCIWA, SCSA, SCNA in progress)

 

[CassieSimons]

I don't see why Microsoft would be interested in reducing the number of professionals certified on their products, however I admit that it would be a likely SIDE EFFECT of making the certification more hands-on and therefore (potentially) harder.

I think a real-world lab-type exam is a great idea HOWEVER I suspect that the effort involved in organising and running these tests would be such as to increase significantly the cost of each exam. How would people feel about that?

Cassie

http://www.ExamsAreEasy.com

????????????????????????
You don't need questions
You need answers.
????????????????????????

 

[amandeephunjan]

i agree with you but how do you suggest that it can be done online i hope it is impossible to do it online the technique used by old billy boy is the cheapest i favour real life probs and i offer them to my students once in a while but they are effective only if the instructor is around