Team Player or not? 10

[dennisbbb]

In the IT department, all staff are supposed to have their own position and responsibilities. Each does their own thing and in effect works as a team. However, some position overlapped and things get fuzzy.

My question in particular is between an Senior Admin and a Junior Admin, when would it be the drawing line when it comes to administering users and servers. The junior want to get all the brownie points by asskissing really hard and doing most Administration tasks whenever possible. Though the title is junior Admin, he acts as if there is no Senior admin. It seems disrespectful to the senior Admin when junior is trying so hard to climb over the top.

What is the drawing line? Is there a drawing line? Do you experience this in your department?

 

[SantaMufasa]

Dennis,

This is a classic management issue. If it is not an issue to anyone in the supervisorial reporting structure above "Junior", then it may be difficult to resolve. If it is an issue only to "Senior", then I'd say that "Senior" needs to "fight fire with fire" by staying ahead of "Junior".

You really cannot blame "Junior" for showing the initiative to want to do everything s/he can to become a "Senior"...(What more fair way to become a Senior than through hard work and initiative...and perhaps some butt kissing?)

In all fairness, you must ask yourself, "If I am working hard, showing initiative, and appropriately socialising with colleagues, would I call it 'overstepping my bounds and butt kissing' "?

If it is an issue to someone above "Junior", then proper management of assignments and feedback (via one-on-ones, for example) can help ameliorate the problem. If butt kissing is an issue to a superior, then the superior can generally reduce the problem via diplomatically calling "Junior" on the practice.

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[

http://www.dasages.com:

Providing low-cost remote Database Admin services]
Click here to join Utah Oracle Users Group on Tek-Tips if you use Oracle in Utah USA.

 

[DrJavaJoe]

I think the Senior Admin needs to find more stuff for the eager young Junior Admin to do. Then if the Senior is in need of kudos he/she can just share with the powers that be that junior is doing great I have him doing this and that, which has really freed me up to do more important stuff such as...


Two strings walk into a bar. The first string says to the bartender: 'Bartender, I'll have a beer. u.5n$x5t?*&4ru!2[sACC~ErJ'. The second string says: 'Pardon my friend, he isn't NULL terminated'.

 

[CajunCenturion]

Is the Senior Admin the supervisor of the Junior Admin?

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[lionelhill]

Depending on regional and corporate culture, there are lines that can be crossed.

(1) If the junior is deliberately setting out to make the senior look silly, by, for instance, witholding information that should have been passed to him/her, or telling other staff/clients that junior is able to do a better job than senior (making derogatory remarks behind back), then this would probably be highly offensive and perhaps even disciplinable behaviour.

(2) If the junior is accepting jobs for which they are not officially qualified, in contravention of what overall management has decided, then they must stop it. Crude example: a junior surgeon can't just agree to do a heart bypass because they'd like to make a name for themselves in the cardiac field. More realistically, if the junior person is bypassing local QA rules by doing jobs then there might be problems, even if they actually do the job very well.

But if the senior is sitting around appreciating his/her senior position without actually pulling their weight, then they can't be protected for ever from young enthusiastic competition.

 

[dennisbbb]

Senior is not supervisor for Junior. The CIO is their supervisor. However Senior has some supervisory control over Junior.

The line is not very clear since both can administer the network system and users. It's a battle of who gets to the problem first. Should Senior tell Junior to cool off, and not think as if he's the only Admin in the house. Junior works alone and never discuss any issues with Senior. From the eyes of Junior, Senior is non-existent.

An aggressive Junior is very disrespectful for the Senior. Are you currently in this position as a Senior - feeling like Junior is out to make a name for himself and aiming for a raise, and your title?

 

[EBGreen]

I'm guessing this is a cultural issue. In many western cultures (i.e. the US), a Junior taking the initiative is not seen as disrespectful to his senior at all. If the senior has supervisory responsibilities over the junior, and the junior still has time to do some of the senior's duties, then it means the senior is not giving the junior enough work.

[red]"... isn't sanity really just a one trick pony anyway?! I mean, all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you are good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit!" - The Tick[/red]

 

[SantaMufasa]

Tom,

Since Dennis is a "California Dreamer", the U.S.-cultural thang you mention must not have made it to Dennis's part of the "Left Coast".

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[

http://www.dasages.com:

Providing low-cost remote Database Admin services]
Click here to join Utah Oracle Users Group on Tek-Tips if you use Oracle in Utah USA.

 

[EBGreen]

I got the feeling from the grammar used in his posts that english was not his native language though.

[red]"... isn't sanity really just a one trick pony anyway?! I mean, all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you are good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit!" - The Tick[/red]

 

[CajunCenturion]

==> The CIO is their supervisor. However Senior has some supervisory control over Junior.
That seems bit nebulous to begin with, but as the supervisor of both, it's up to the CIO to choose where to draw the line. That being said, if Senior has some supervisory control over Junior, then what is Senior doing to exercise that control?

The comment "it's a battle of who gets to the problem first", sounds like the titles Junior and Senior may be on paper only, or are for administrative reasons, such as salary determination.

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[dennisbbb]

Your comments are all very valuable thus far. Thank you.

Ideally things should work according to the hierarchy set on paper. However, when you throw in a mixture of Junior's personality, lenient manangement, CIO over expresses credits to the problem solver, you get a Junior who sees no Senior and reports directly to CIO.

Quote: "In many western cultures (i.e. the US), a Junior taking the initiative is not seen as disrespectful to his senior at all."

True, if and only if Junior is seemingly working for Senior. The fact that Junior reports directly to CIO and says nothing to Senior regarding problems or issues shows a lack of team playing and does not follow the hierarchy, hence, disrespects the Senior.

The skill level of Junior has approached that of Senior thru the last few years, in an almost static environment. His skill level has grown over the years. Should Junior or Senior leave for another job? The feeling is, this small pond is too small for two big fish.

 

[CajunCenturion]

I think the most important quality of any job is that you enjoy what you're doing, and are comfortable in the environment. If either Junior or Senior is not happy, and there are no compelling reasons to stay, e.g. salary, health benefits compouded by pre-existing conditions, commute time, other benefits, etc., then I would suggest that either of them look for a more suitable environment.

--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[alicep]

Is Junior neglecting (or pushing aside) primary job duties in order to shine brighter in the administrator job functions? If that is the case, then Junior is not being a team player. If Junior is doing all those duties and still has time for more duties, then DrJavaJoe has a good idea - find more tasks for Junior to do. A physical equipment inventory (including branch locations) usually occupies a Junior for a while!

Also, if Junior is not communicating to Senior, that can cause problems for your entire computer department. We had a case where our computers were not disconnecting after a sales order transfer session. Found out later that Jr had added a file to the transfer process and didn't tell anyone. It was a small annoyance and easily corrected, so no problem to the CIO. Except 2 others in our department spent 2 days trouble shooting modem connectivity!

Lenient management was mentioned, so it could be up to Senior to take the initiative in letting Junior know that all communication needs to include Senior. If all other things are good about the job, then try to get Junior to increase communication.

Try a direct conversation with Junior when a specific incident arises. Example, "I see you have added a new user in the marketing department. I need you to inform me when new user accounts are created because I am ultimately the one responsible for the network, I need to verify they sign the Acceptable Use Policy, etc. Will you agree to inform me in the future?"

Document the conversation and repeat your request to be informed each time Junior has not communicated. At best, Junior will begin communicating. At worst, Junior will complain to CIO that you are nagging/hassling him. When that happens, pull out your documentation of conversations where you are asking to be informed. And restate the request to be informed!

 

[benlinkknilneb]

Speaking from the Junior's point of view (which is where I am, currently...)

In my office, I often feel that my "Senior" is pulling more weight than he needs to. I try my best to swipe a little bit of his work because he needs free time too. I also think quite a bit about the bus contingency (specifically, what's gonna happen to the office if the bus runs over him?). This has been brought to the forefront recently as he has been in the hospital and I've had to run the place on my own. I'm sure he's felt kinda useless this last couple of weeks because I made sure to take his pager away so he could relax without being interrupted. It's not a power play, I just wanted him to recover before returning to work, instead of sitting at home fretting every time an alert came in.

In the interests of keeping the peace between the two, I ask the Senior this:

Do you plan to be promoted or retired someday?
Who's the most likely candidate to step into your role?

As long as the two people can communicate (and as others have pointed out, the Junior isn't trying to make the Senior look bad), I'd say give the guy some work. He needs to learn it for someday... and the more he knows, the less often you get called home early from a vacation to do something to a computer. Perhaps the titles are, as Cajun suggested, merely a paperwork distinction. If so, treat the junior like a less-experienced contemporary rather than a subordinate. Develop that communication between the two and you'll each only work half as hard.

Ben

There's no place like 127.0.0.1.

 

[svanels]

If I was the Senior, I would love to have a Junior like that and play mentor.
Imagine sitting relaxed (with the feet on the table ) and work is getting done by someone who is willing to take initiative!!

My question: Junior and Senior have a problem with the Status Quo?, is it hindering the CIO, or the spectators?

Steven

 

[Corran007]

As with everything, it depends. at my former employer our network admin would love to have had an assistant like that. There were a great deal more important things that need to be done but he was having to spend all his days doing stuff like fixing user accounts. If junior wants to fix all the user accounts and do basic server admin, have at them. If he doesnt want to let senior know what is going on, create a system to log all calls and resolution. This way senior can still see what junior is doing. This will free up senior to do more difficult tasks that im sure are on his mile long to do list. Im sure the future capactity planning, disaster recovery, system documenation, ect all could use some work. Either give some of those to junior or do them yourself.

I have little trouble finding work for people to do. People actually warn others not to say they have nothing/little to do around me. I can quickly resolve that situation.

 

[DrJavaJoe]

The skill level of Junior has approached that of Senior thru the last few years, in an almost static environment.

It seems that Senior may only be senior in the eyes of Senior. Sometimes in a static environment comfort levels set in and before you know know it you are no longer the head honcho. When this happens you can either live with it or take your own initiative to better oneself whether it be with the same company or not.


Two strings walk into a bar. The first string says to the bartender: 'Bartender, I'll have a beer. u.5n$x5t?*&4ru!2[sACC~ErJ'. The second string says: 'Pardon my friend, he isn't NULL terminated'.

 

[dennisbbb]

Thank you all for the feedback.

Again, if junior is seemingly working on your side (best buddy), sure, let him have all the tasks he can handle. I don't disagree. However, if he is working to dethrone you, then you will not have a nice sentiment for junior.

Not suprisingly, all this competition is healthy and keeps us wanting to learn more. It is not a complain about junior doing too much work. It is a complain about junior wanting to do senior's work, without senior's input. Junior submit plans for a change in the network structure. Junior recommends new brand of network switches, cables, and NIC. Junior plans for "future capactity planning, disaster recovery, system documenation" all by himself and shows initiative to CIO directly, behind senior's back. Admittely heirachy is unrealistic. The only things that stand between us are the titles.

The initial question still stands. Is this team playing? Where is the drawing line. (Really, how do you draw the line?)

 

[MDXer]

If Junior is able to do all of these things then I think the better question is "Is Senior a team player" The simple fact that Junior is able to submit changes to the existing architecture without Senior even knowing makes me ask, What is Senior doing?

Shoot Me! Shoot Me NOW!!!
- Daffy Duck

 

[svanels]

Maybe CIO brought Junior in to wake-up Senior. Looks like senior is still sleeping.

if he is working to dethrone you

Did Senior ever wrote a plan for "future capacity planning"

A lot of people talk, but a few write. Time for Senior to pass the pieces.

Steven