System Restore Tab Missing 5

[TunaBoy57]

Am running XP Pro on AMD 2200+, Via mobo, nVidia GForce2Pro, 512Mb Ram, lots of apps. Is setup as main server on lan for 4 pc's all different flavours of MSOS.
Having run setup from CD after too many BSOD's, I now find that the tab for System Restore is missing from My Computer Properties page. Machine is not creating any RP's, and there is only one file in the relevant directories on each of the three hard drives, "tracking.log". Is there a registry hack to reenable the page? Am I possibly a victim of a hacker? Am running ZoneAlarm Pro v4, and Trojan Remover 6 detects nothing. Norton Utilities says nothing about it as well. Only recently installed app is Laplink Gold 11.

 

[smah]

Is the System Restore Service running? It should be set to automatic. This article also might be worth a look

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;283073

 

[linney]

Have you reinstalled SP1 after you ran Setup?


Q310405 - How to Turn On and Turn Off System Restore in Windows XP

http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q310/4/05.asp

Q302796 - Troubleshooting System Restore in Windows XP

http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q302/7/96.asp

283252 - Non-Administrator User Is Unable to Start System Restore Utility

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;283252&FR=1&PA=1&SD=HSCH

 

[TunaBoy57]

When attempting to start the service from the Services Control snapin I get the error message: Error 5 - Access is denied. I am the administrator.

 

[TunaBoy57]

oh yeh, the setup cd I have is XPPro Corporate SP1

 

[TunaBoy57]

OK, have tried all the tips and KB Articles, using all the different methods, but to no avail. Thanks 4 the help. Am considering either pulling down my "Technical User" shingle, or reformatting. But then, with about 200 different apps installed, configured, and all working as they should, this would be a shame. Geez, I don't even have a complaint with any of my games now. This whole System Restore thing may well be pointless, but then, its the old "rainy day" principle. Nor can I find a property page adjustment in the registry, oh how I wish it was that easy. Maybe someone knows of a problem with some app I have installed. Would be happy to post a summary of installed apps if that would help. Have referenced all the dll's for the service, all seem to be in order, a couple of them are even loaded in running memory, and report ok. The only file created anywhere is the tracking log on the c: drive. Have ascertained that there is sufficient space on all drives, checked all dependent services, checked policy editors (both). Next step oblivion.

 

[bcastner]

Some thoughts:

1. Is GoBack installed, or was it at one time?
2. Is RealPlayer installed?
3. Is the Task Scheduler service running?
4. Did you go to c:\Windows\inf\sr.inf and right-click and Install?

 

[linney]

It's just a feeling I have (probably totally wrong), but I feel this is a problem with SP1 failing to restore, update, or to just generally stuff up your machine. The CD that you originally loaded XP with, was that the same CD you used to reinstall XP recently. What I'm getting at is how was SP1 loaded first time onto this machine? Is it the same copy of SP1 that went in recently?

If you have gone back in time using Systen Restore or a general repair of Windows you may have accidently uninstalled some of the recent Windows Updates and need to reinstall them.

Download the free QFEcheck tool from Microsoft and run it on your machine to see if any Windows Updates that you have on your machine have been corrupted too and need reinstalling (especially SP1).

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=282784

Try these articles and see if they provide any clues.


329441 - You Cannot Create a Network Connection After You Restore Windows XP

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=329441

313222 - HOW TO: Reset Security Settings Back to the Defaults

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;313222&FR=1&PA=

1&SD=HSCH

http://groups.google.com/groups?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=

%22System+Restore%22%2BError+5+%2D+Access+is+denied%2Bsystem%2Brestore%
2Bservice%2Bwindows%2Bxp

 

[bcastner]

I had the same feeling Linney, but there would be something in the error logs.

One other odd thing occured to me. If you run a program that uses the idle cycles of a workstation, then system restore will never run.

An example would be those crunching for SETI, Folding@Home, Team Discovery, or other distributed computing projects.

Since these programs will automaticly take any free idle cycles, system restore would never start. It would never recover, for example, from a suspended state due to disk shortage on any partition or volume. Normally it requires about 15 or so minutes of idle cycles to convince itself that it is safe to resume restore monitoring after a suspend. If the workstation has no free cycles system restore will never resume.

 

[TunaBoy57]

Gee you guys are great at chasing things.
First to bcastner - some thoughts
1) - No, never
2) - Not to my knowledge, the only reference to it is by way of some codecs in multimedia. I consciously avoid installing the actual program. I figure that some of my other sound apps may have installed the codecs as a matter of course, or that they are the ones that come with XP.
3) - Yes, the only entry is NAV each friday
4) - No, should I?
Now linney -
It has been the same cd both times - that is, it is already configured with SP1 at setup, and both times I have gone to MS site immediately to download any available hotfixes, one thing though, on the second install, I noticed that the previously downloaded hotfixes(from the previous install and subsequent manual updates) were all missing and had to be downloaded and installed again. Hence the new backup section for these files in Second Copy 2000.
Have downloaded and run QfeCheck - no errors all hotfixes current. going back to Windows Update shows all up to date.
Have also checked all registry entries referred to within the context of the Knowledgebase articles on system restore referred to in these posts, and referenced them against an old registry backup kept from before the reinstall. All of these show no discrepancies.
Following your thoughts about SETI etc, I sat and monitored the Idle time from within Task Manager for about 20 minutes, it showed 98% idle for most of this time. The only constant running tool I have that might affect this sort of scenario is StayLive for my dial up connection, which is set to ping the time server every five minutes. Will try disabling this, but I still don't understand how any of this has disabled the manual control of system restore or locked me out of it with an access denied error. Or even why the tab is missing if all the relevant keys are correct in the registry. I must be missing something simple, probably me.

 

[TunaBoy57]

to bcastner - point 4 - I tried it, it installed, asked me to reboot as per normal under system settings change scenario, but after reboot, no change, still no tab, still have it set to automatic under services control, but it still throws up the same error when attempting a manual start. "Error 5 - Access is denied". Just a point - even in safe mode, running under the machine administrator privileges, the service will still not start. I just feel that it has to be a registry thing somewhere.

 

[bcastner]

My personal advice:

I tried to "left field" this one; think outside the loop and see what possibly could have been installed to prevent this service from running after looking at the Linney troubleshooting list.

My advice is therefore:

Wait for a short while for Service Pack #2. Slipstream onto your license for XP Service Pack #1, and then Service Pack #2 (It is unclear whether #2 is cumulative at this point. That is the tradition, so one Slipstream may be enough).

And then do a maintenance re-install. Just to remind you how, but do it with your Slipstream:

http://support.microsoft.com:80/support/kb/articles/q315/3/41.asp&NoWebContent=1

Bill.

 

[TunaBoy57]

okay guys - I personally think that enough effort has been expended on what is really a trivial matter. The fact that the tab is missing and won't reactivate even after the registry has been reset sort of proves to me that MS have yet to come up with a reliable method for this scenario, and from the trawls that I have made through this and other forums suggests that I am not alone with this problem. Trivial? - Why? - In my case it is because all my data is saved onto another physical disk, my backup routines all work great ( thanks to the guys at Second Copy for an axcellent app), I have all the cd's necessary to reinstall all the apps. I have Ghost images of various stages, and different configurations. I was just trying to see if there was a non-time-consuming method, but hey, having used MS products for too many years to count, I am well used to the reinstall cycle, almost have it down pat, and am not really deterred by seeing the "virgin" XP again. And even though we haven't yet come up with a definitive solution, I am still grateful for the time and effort put in by you guys, hence the star posts I am about to place, you earned them in my opinion. Once again thanks much.

 

[linney]

It was Bill thinking of Aliens causing this not me (I'm not that clever). I agree with you that anything to do with cycles would not make the System Restore tab disappear. For that to happen a policy or as you say Registry setting would need to be involved. I suppose you have checked Group Policy to see if it has been disabled in there?

http://www.jsiinc.com/subj/tip4600/rh4673.htm

Are there any other Administrators on your machine? Do they have the tab? What about the System Administrator in Safe Mode? It seems to have demoted you to limited user as far as System Restore is concerned.

Set all Hidden an System Files to be visible. Do you have any old System Restore folders in the root of the drive. Try deleting any folders there and see if that makes any difference.

This is a tough one, let us know if you can solve it without reformatting and reinstalling. Good luck.

 

[TunaBoy57]

ok linney
I am yet to reformat, so will continue this with you if you like (hey, I would it, it seems like a little challenge to me)
To answer your points -
Group Policy is virtually inactive, as I am yet to define any policies to settings other than the default. I don't normally use it myself except on some clients machines. First time I used it on this machine was the other day, looking at this little problemo.
There are a couple of registry hacks in place - Administrative shares have been disabled as per the MS KB article 314984, method 2. Also 320159 - disable changing of Home Page. Whilst it may be possible that the administrative share could in some way be connected, the problem did not occur until some time after this was done - a few weeks. And the computer sat on & idle for plenty of hours in that time frame.
There is another administrator on the machine, my wife. Who gets on the machine occasionally to play solitaire if its running and I'm not on it. She is only an administrator because the particular game is also one I enjoy, and the data file that it uses requires admin privileges.
Running as System administrator in Safe Mode had no effect either, nor does the other account.B-(
I already have all files visible including super-hidden, there are no pre-existant folders on the drives that contain restore points.
The Norton Protected Recycle Bin and its Unerase Wizard are quiet on the subject as well.
I don't know where next.
Have rummaged through the settings on various tweak apps, but with no setting visible that has anything to do with killing System Restore, just creating, renaming or deleting points.
Could this have somehow happened during an uninstall procedure? Dumb thing maybe, but I've seen uninstalls affect other things that it shouldn't too. And weirder than this. And some of the better apps operate on a pretty low level sometimes. Its just that they usually also uninstall properly too. Cool Edit Pro did some weird things before I uninstalled that.
Okay, wait for the next step now, I suppose.

 

[bcastner]

Other than this, which I think you said you already tried:

"try adding the System Account with full previliges also to the System Volume Information folder and all subfolders and see if that resolves the issue with the access denied issue for this folder and see if the service than starts. Keep us posted. Thanks

--
Anshul Rawat[MS]
System Restore, Windows XP

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no rights.

For additional information on System Restore please visit:

http://microsoft.com/technet/itcommunity/Newsgroups/FAQSRWXP.asp"

<end quote>

Anshul Rawat is the guy for System Restore at MS. His FAQ is probably the cleanest explanation of the processes used by SR in XP.

I admire Linney's pluggedness, but I suspect there is no simple registry change that will bring the tab back for system restore.

I hope TunaBoy57 you find a resolution for this and share it. System Restore is a very important XP feature, and is not of small moment to MS. You might try e-mail or through Microsoft newsgroups to try the question directly to Anshul.

 

[bcastner]

Click Start, click Run, type regedit, and then click OK.
In Registry Editor, navigate to the following location:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows NT

Under Windows NT, create a new key:
On the Edit menu, click New, and then click Key.
For the name of the new key, type SystemRestore.
Create a new DWORD value:
On the Edit menu, click New, and then click DWORD Value.
Double-click the new key to open the Edit DWORD Value dialog box.
Under Value name, type DisableConfig, under Value data type 0, and then click OK.

reboot.

 

[linney]

Maybe you could try temporarily removing the Norton Protected Recycle Bin this has similar abilities to System Restore and could be conflicting.


A Quote from this site.


&quot;*** All symptoms of using Norton System Works and its horrid &quot;protected recycle bin feature&quot;. Norton system works should NEVER be set to run in the background as it does by default when you installed it.

Of course many of you may be running Norton System Works in the background with no problems whatsoever and may really love what it does. Many folks who repair PCs tho like myself however are simply quite opinioned re: certain Nortons features.

On the other hand, do keep the Norton stuff in mind when going to fix a buddies PC that is having the oddest sort of problems. Simply disabling Nortons system works from running 24/7 does help fix quite a number of odd &quot;OS&quot; problems that you may initially believe is a Microsoft bug or corrupted Windows.&quot;

http://www.bootdisk.com/bootlist/065.htm

 

[bcastner]

The thread that will not die....

I hate Norton System Works.

I do use NAV, and like it quite a bit, but the whole package install I have learned to shudder when I see it installed.

I will FEDEX a cold (well, whatever) beer to whomsoever solves this problem.

 

[greyted]

Try this link.

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;en-us;319114&

Found it here.

http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/t1007744465

HTH


Ted

Proofread carefully to see if you any words out