Surface raceways

[fs483]

Hello,

I'm currently looking into installing surface raceways for network/phone cabling. Each wall plate will have two CAT5e cables connected to it. Each room will have 2 wall plates. There are a total of 5 rooms. Then 15 other wallplates will be spread out through the main hall. Now I've looked at the surface raceways from Panduit (LD series and maybe T45 or T70 series) and from Hubble (MT series). They do pretty much the same thing. Have you guys used these kinds of products, what are the pros/cons. Any particular difficulties you had ? I was thinking of using the smaller sized conduits (LD3 or LD5 or MT6) for the rooms and the larger diameter (LD10 or T70 or MT9) for the main trunks back to the communication room. Can you mix and match products from the two companies ? I will be using low profile single gang boxes with the screw on faceplates. The raceways will be screwed into the walls using self tapping screws. I have no choice but to use surface raceways because the walls are concrete in an old building warehouse style office. Even the electrical contractor used metal conduits to route the electricity.

Thanks
anthony

 

[EdPorts]

I've used panduit's products plenty of times. I don't know, I wouldn't say they're excellent or anything -- they get the job done cheaply. I like the raceways that are made out of metal personally. They take a hell of a long longer to install, and they're not easy to work with -- but they last longer. That's my biggest deal, raceways ALWAYS get damaged.

 

[fs483]

Are there any NO NO's when installing plastic raceways like near heat source ? The main trunk with about 60 Cat5e cables will be installed on the ceiling leading to the comm room. I'll be putting in wire clips to hold the wires for easy installation (and prevent the wires from falling when the cover is removed) before putting on the plastic covers. I might be putting security straps over the cover to prevent the covers from falling off when they are on the ceiling.

Thanks
anthony

 

[franklin97355]

If the wires are supported correctly the covers of the panduit products will not fall off. They are hard enough to get off when you are trying. Check with the manufacturer on the max fill for the product you plan to use. As for heat sources, this is plastic, use common sense.

 

[OldPhoneGuy]

I used to use the plastic stuff. I find that while Wiremold is more expensive, it makes makes a much better installation.

 

[Jtodd]

I've used just about all of the LD serise as well as the T70. It's great for it's purpose. Fairly easy to work with, much easier so than Wiremold. There are a lot of issues that make metalic raceway undersireable. (yes Nick that was for you).
As for putting it on the ceiling, agree with franklin, if its put together right, the covers are not going to fall off.
As a minor thing, I think tha Panduit stuff just looks better than the other surface raceways that are available. But that's just me.

Justin T. Clausen
Physical Layer Implementation
California State University, Monterey Bay

 

[EdPorts]

Well, as Justin would know... I had to beat the living **** out of some metallic wiremold to get it off in order to add 5 cat5e cables to it. Now granted, that was a pain in the behind -- but there are better brands that don't use as terrible of a method for putting the cover back on.

My thing is... if you're putting 60 cables in there, you want something that's solid. Those clips will probably support the bulk of the load, but who knows.

Here at Charter Communications... when we do apartment rebuilds and what not that require postwiring, as no internal wiring is possible, we use several different brands of metallic wiremold -- mostly hubbel's stuff. Works great, doesn't fall apart, and has some sense of security.

Another thing you could do, depending on your budget, experience, and desire to make it look a certain way -- would be to install snake tray or flex tray down the room, and then bring 1/2" EMT up to the tray. I like that better, although it's more difficult and doesn't look exactly the same -- although I think it looks fairly professional too.

Who knows.

 

[jlshelton]

In many environments with exposed conduit, one sees network and telephone cables wire-tied to the conduit, then run to a surface-mount box nearby. It's cheap, functional, but not aesthetically pleasing.

Alternatively, get the electricians to install matching conduit (you didn't mention rigid or thinwall) up to the ceiling, then use plenum-rated cable overhead.

As you use CAT 5e and presumably want to support high-speed networking now or in the future, be mindful of bend-radius and other degradation of signal quality. You can't pinch/mangle/spindle/fold/knot network cable and expect good results.

 

[daronwilson]

In many environments with exposed conduit, one sees network and telephone cables wire-tied to the conduit, then run to a surface-mount box nearby. It's cheap, functional, but not aesthetically pleasing.

It's also a National Electrical Code violation, not the type of installation I would recommend.

Alternatively, get the electricians to install matching conduit (you didn't mention rigid or thinwall) up to the ceiling, then use plenum-rated cable overhead.

This is certainly a much cleaner way, you may not need plenum rated cable though. Just because it is a suspended ceiling does not mean it is an environmental air handling space. We often see suspended ceilings and complete ducting above for the environmental air. Check with the authority having jurisdiction.

We use Panduit plastic raceway with good results. Obviously if it is subject to real physical abuise, EMT or wiremold type metal raceway may be the best choice, even though the metal is much more time consuming to install.

Good Luck!


It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com

 

[EdPorts]

I agree with jlshelton. I'd simply have the contractor install 1/2" conduit to surface mount boxes with a decent amount of depth for termination. I'd then have those conduits go up the wall, with a gentle bend, and then go to the center of the room (you said this was one great big hall, right?) if you have a cieling that's fairly close by, if not, just have them stub straight up. And I'd use something like flex tray or snake tray to actually support all of your feeder cable. Reason being is that it's easy to install into flex tray, easy to do MAC's, and it's fairly clean. Panduit/surface raceway is great, but for something of this high quantity -- I'd shoot for a little bit more of a custom job.

 

[Servamatic]

If the standards mean anything, 1/2" conduit is not permissable for data. Minimum size is 3/4", since the standard says size for 3 cables, even if you only pull 1 or 2 to each workstation.
Should you need to firestop, or if the AHJ requires the use of fill ratio's, 3 UTP cables is 45% fill in 1/2" EMT and 54% in smurf tube (ENT).
Most firestop materials only allow about 30 - 35% fill.

Richard S. Anderson, RCDD

http://www.servamatic.net

 

[EdPorts]

1/2" conduit is not permissable? What standard are you following (I'm not doubting you, but I find that hard to believe)? I'm only talking about stubbing it above the cieling line. Perhaps a 10' chase.

 

[fs483]

Hello,

I have carefully selected the type of surface raceway so that my wire fill doesn't exceed 40%. Even the electrical contractor installed the electrical outlets using metal tubing on the surface of the walls. The previous telephone/network guys just tie-wrapped their wires onto the conduits and installed their jacks beside the outlets. I don't want to do that and I actually have to remove all the old wiring and jacks, most are damaged or missing the covers. Since the ceiling already has those huge air ducts in plain sight, extra plastic raceways won't change anything. The customer actually likes the looks of the offices, it's like I said, warehouse style where all the mechanicals are visible. I just hope the wire clips are strong enough to hold up the wires. How far should I space out the clips on the main trunk (every foot, every 2 feet ) ? I plan also install security straps on top of the covers for added security and prevent the covers from falling.

Thanks
anthony

 

[Servamatic]

ANSI EIA/TIA Standards, you know...the ones for our industry!

Richard S. Anderson, RCDD

http://www.servamatic.net

 

[daronwilson]

We don't use 1/2" at all for phone or data. 3/4 minimum, and if you are chaining boxes together, the pipe size should increase one trade size at every box, no more than 3 boxes in any run.

While the standards urge you to adhere to the fill ratio, the current NEC excepted fill requirements in horizontal cabling.

Good Luck!

It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com

 

[EdPorts]

EIA/TIA standards... the ones for our industry, eh.

Well...

You go ahead and install your 3/4" conduit for a single cat-3 drop, and I'll stay with my 1/2".

I hope you're misinterpreting the "standards" on that one, because if not... you should probably re-wire them, as that is completely in left field, 1/2" conduit is perfectly fine for a single or double drop.

Now, if I was going to be bringing this stuff through bends, around a corner, and across the cieling, I'd tend to agree with you.

But a 10' stub into the cieling is MORE than acceptable.

I use 3/4" most of the time for small drops of a few cables, but if I've got 1/2" -- then I've got 1/2".

This reminds me of the classic saying. Don't believe everything you read.

 

[dhnl]

Daron:

What type of outlet box do you terminate the 3/4" EMT with when installing using surface methods? (strap to concrete wall) Do you use a 4" box with adapter plate for surface mount as well as behind drywall applications?

 

[Servamatic]

What happens when your customer decides he wants a couple more connections in the box you have your 1/2" going too?
Oh well Mr. Customer...you are screwed because I was cheap and short-sighted and didn't care about industry standards.
The standards really are there for a reason....and no, I didn't misread them, perhaps you should try reading them.

Richard S. Anderson, RCDD

http://www.servamatic.net

 

[daronwilson]

I hope you're misinterpreting the "standards" on that one, because if not... you should probably re-wire them, as that is completely in left field, 1/2" conduit is perfectly fine for a single or double drop.

TIA/EIA 569-A Commercial Building Standard for Telecommunications Pathways and Spaces Table 4.4-1 shows us that in 1/2" conduit, you can only install one cable and meet the cable fill requirements, even if that cable is .13" OD. If the cable is .24" OD (close to Cat5e) you cannot fit ANY in a 1/2" conduit and meet the maximum fill requirements. In a 3/4" conduit, you can put thre (3) .24" cables and still meet the maximum fill requirements.

We're not just making this stuff up guys, it's out there, it is commonly accepted for the work we do and you should be familiar with it.

What type of outlet box do you terminate the 3/4" EMT with when installing using surface methods? (strap to concrete wall) Do you use a 4" box with adapter plate for surface mount as well as behind drywall applications?

On the surface it would depend on the decor and finish. Generally it would be a 4 square deep box with a raised industrial cover. However, it may be a Wiremold metal box deep enough to allow me room to fit the assembly in without compromising the bend radius.

In the wall it is almost always a 4 square deep box with either a single gang or double gang mud ring depending on the number of outlets.

Good Luck!




It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com

 

[fs483]

On one side of wall of the comm room, there will be the main stack of CAT5e wires come in (the T-70 surface way will be butted up to the wall probably with a Entrance End Fitting. Once the wires pass through the comm room wall, should I run any conduits/surface raceway from the top of the wall down to the patch panel or do I just bundle the wires neatly and secure them with velcro or tie-wraps that enable you to screw them to the backboard ?

Thanks
anthony