Stranded vs Solid RJ-11/45's

[MetroMan]

Hey guys!
I just finished up a very emergency move of a Merlin Magix system when the clients' telco room had a burst pipe in it. Fun. I had scores of solid RJ-11 jacks and put them onto my 24AWG Nordx/CDT 25-pair into BIX blocks. But I also had to do some custom length stranded cables, and was fresh out of stranded RJ-11 plugs, so I used the solid type.

Now I know the diff between the two is in the blades, and I know that YOU CANNOT USE STRANDED PLUGS ON SOLID.

But, is it reliable to use solid plugs on stranded. I've always had lots of each in my truck and have never really tried???

-T-
Happy Holidays

Trevor Farren
Metrotech Telecom Inc.

 

[ttech]

Back when I didn't know any better I used stranded plugs on solid cable on a few partner systems, and I would always end up returning to sites to trouble shoot lines and extentions that would stop working or have static on them 9sometimes years later). so basically I would re-hookup the whole thing with the correct ends and the calls stopped.

So NO it id not reliable to mix-match ends

Don

 

[ISDNman]

I know there are now companies that advertise special plugs that are meant to work with both (L-com has these for sale).

Any experience with these out there?

These would be the best thing to keep in the truck.

 

[MetroMan]

I know that Panduit Canada has some RJ-45 models that work on both.

I have spoken to a couple of other techs who feel that Solid plugs on stranded line work fine, but I'd like to get a bigger consensus.

The l-com ones are made by Stewart, and we have had limited reliability on solid on thoose ones, they ssem goos, but have little strain relif capabilities it seems.

Siemon has great combo RJ-11/45 8p/8c connectors (the blue ones) , and they work on anything anywhere anytime, are a bit pricey for the average modular KSU/PBX installation.

-T-

Trevor Farren
Metrotech Telecom Inc.

 

[ttech]

For solid cable I've been using the IDEAL ones. YOu can get them at home depot. They can be too bad if they are willing to mold their name onto the tab.

 

[Sphoneman]

I would check with the mfg. I would think with the two contact points it would be better, but there might be a difference in the depth that might damage the thin strand.

Steve
tele-dataservices.com

 

[Servamatic]

The plugs made for solid work just fine on stranded, only if you must make your own in the first place.
If you were to talk to a manufacturer they would tell you that the solid ones are the ones they sell as universal.
Go pick up a few and a big magnifying glass, see for yourself.

Richard S. Anderson, RCDD

http://www.servamatic.net

 

[hbiss]

Sorry, I don't agree.

A pin for solid wire will have three "teeth", the center one offset from the other two about the distance of the wire diameter. The idea is to pierce the insulation and straddle the conductor on its sides, pinching it between the teeth with two on one side and one on the other.

A pin for stranded wire will have only two teeth both located right on the center line of the conductor. Their job is to simply impale the stranded conductor.

Now, when you use a solid pin on stranded wire the stranded wire is not rigid and will tend to deflect and deform in and out around the three teeth. The result is an intermittent contact.

Same can be said for stranded pin on solid wire. The two teeth will be unable to impale the solid conductor. Both the the teeth and conductor will "munge up" to allow the pin to be set but not make a reliable connection.

I have NEVER had reliable results from using the wrong plug for the wire type.

The way to check the pin is to remove it from the plug and look at it with a magnifying glass. I have to do this routinely with samples of cables I have fabricated in order to make sure they used the proper plugs. One time they didn't and it was nothing but a problem.

-Hal

 

[Servamatic]

Disagree all you wish, a solid only has 2 teeth, for making contact on the outside of the conductor, one for stranded has a single spike to pierce the center.
Get out a magnifying glass and check it for yourself.
Anyways you can use one for solid on stranded but not the other way around.
Maybe sometime in the next few days I will post blowups of each type on my website so you can see for yourself.

Richard S. Anderson, RCDD

http://www.servamatic.net

 

[ttech]

Servamatic,

It all depends on the brand of plugs. I have seen 2 teeth and 3 teeth on the contacts for solid cable. AMP and Ideal have 3 teeth on their solid ends LCOM has 2, but the both brands straddle the cable.

Don

 

[MetroMan]

True! The bags I just got from Anixter are solids with 2 teeth. I think I`ll try a couple on stranded and then beat the hell out of them then test them a bit......



Trevor Farren
Metrotech Telecom Inc.

 

[skip555]

for rj 11 I use the cheapest plug I can find

I use a quaility(amp) crimp tool and haven/t seen a failure in years (since I broke down and bought the amp tool )

I used to have some failures when I used the cheap (50.00) crimp tools evan with quaility solid plugs

for rj45 I rarely do it,

I use ready made

I do carry amp tool and solid plugs for dire emergencys

I agree with richard that the solid plug is fine to use on the stranded cable just mot the other way around

 

[hbiss]

Disagree all you wish, a solid only has 2 teeth, for making contact on the outside of the conductor, one for stranded has a single spike to pierce the center.

I wouldn't be too sure until you look at other brands of plugs. The ones I am talking about are Amp.

Regardless, three teeth and two teeth or two teeth and one tooth (which brand do you think will be more reliable by the way?) they all work as I described. I still maintain that a plug is designed for stranded or solid and using the wrong one will cause problems sooner or later. Never seen it to fail.

-Hal

 

[Trotski]

I have been using both types of plugs for years and I have to agree with hbiss use the plug on the cable that it has been designed for and you won't have too many problems

 

[robertjo24]

The right tool for the job, and right connector for the wire is always the best bet.

But, in a pinch, the solid wire connectors work fine on stranded wire, they passed certification on the anayzer, and have not given us any problems in the field.

 

[hbiss]

No, they wouldn't show up on certfication as long as all pins were making contact at the time of the test. In my experience intermittent problems from this usually don't happen right away, often showing up months or even years later when the conductor loosens up or oxidizes.

-Hal

 

[Sphoneman]

I don't know why anyone that is a professional would use a field crimp. The standards would be to terminaate on a jack or patch panel, then use a patch cable.

The old AT&T would be to crimp an end on- then after the cable has been unplugged or moved around a few times you would have to have a technician come out & re-do the end.

Merry Christmas.

Steve
tele-dataservices.com

 

[Servamatic]

You are right Steve
Thats why for emergencies ONLY I carry only solid conductor plugs which WILL work just fine on either.
Was glad I had them on the last graveyard project when I needed a crossover cable and didn't have one at 2 AM.

Richard S. Anderson, RCDD

http://www.servamatic.net

 

[MetroMan]

It's true. Field crimps really are what separate the amateurs from the pros. If I need a custom fitting or pigtail, I'll cut a new patch cord in half before I'd even contemplate crimping anything. However, for good neat Magix or Partner installs, as well as some other PBX's or key eqipment, you have to crimp RJ-11/12's to solid cable. Personally, I will always prefer a good manufacturer testesd Amp 25-pair connector that I will in turn terminate onto a block. I don't even really belive in the whole KSU ino a patch panel directly thing, because the customer usually will damage a port on the KSU that way. It's best to have testable, replaceable components between your expensive equipment and the end station; thats why the EIA/TIA spects are in place; well that's one of the hundreds of reasons that we have them.

I'm now only carring solid plugs, beacuse I really don't need to ever crimp stranded cables.

Trevor Farren
Metrotech Telecom Inc.

 

[hbiss]

However, for good neat Magix or Partner installs, as well as some other PBX's or key eqipment, you have to crimp RJ-11/12's to solid cable. Personally, I will always prefer a good manufacturer testesd Amp 25-pair connector that I will in turn terminate onto a block.

I'm with you on that one. We do press plugs on the ends of cables for the small installs and existing work but we have cables factory made for use where ever we can. These are 25 pair with 12 RJ-14's on one end and gets punched down at the other. These will handle 12 extensions on a Partner system. We even have 6 pair cable made up with 6 RJ-11's for the CO ports.

On the other hand I know of network guy who refuses to by patch cords and would rather make them up from solid CAT 5e cable. Go figure.

-Hal