statistics in kloc's, manyears, etc. also when outsourced

[Crox]

Hi,

I am in desparate need to find statistics in kilo-lines-of-code, amount of man-years for several kinds of projects like conversion, maintenance, creating systems, etc. especially also in relation to outsourcing to western companies but also to India, Russia, etc. etc.

Are here people whom have statistics like the average production of lines of code by a programmer with new programs/projects and also for language conversion.

Regards,

Crox

 

[buitenhek]

This is a tough one. Today it is not just coding; it depends on the package, it could be tables or commercial application product configuration management activities.

As far as skill, outsourcing to India seems to be on par with US production at obviously less cost.

As an assumption, global headcount balancing numbers seem higher when you take into account local PM's must confirm project status. Then translate these 1st cut requirements overseas and confirm proper direction. The dispatchers and demand managers need to convey the forecast requirements in order for the centre managers to adjust the teams.

Regards
Peter Buitenhek
Profit Developer.com

 

[BNPMike]

It was bad enough when I was a boy to talk about "lines of code" but what does that mean in today' world. If you write an SQL statement you can shove it all on one line of 100 characters or split it over 7 or 8 lines for visual clarity. If the Tongans like to split their lines and the Vietnamese don't, then one is 8 times more productive than the other. You're struggling to find these worthless statistics because the only people who would issue them are from Marketing, and are liars.

 

[Crox]

If you do conversion like PL/I to COBOL, you count the original lines in PL/I. The calculation is based on these original lines from the customer. Also when analyzing the sources from any project, software reorganizes the source in a uniform way. Calculations are made on these normalized lines of code.

Most of the time we calculate when the project is done. An other way is calculating function points, which happens also automatically with source-inspecting software.

Some companies base their calculations on function points in the beginning of the project. That is also ok to me.

Regards,

Crox

 

[BNPMike]

Is anybody converting from PL/I to COBOL in 2004?

Function points is obviously better.

 

[Crox]

I know many companies whom want to do this. I even think that IBM is one of them. One of the reasons I want to know these statistics is because we do it here in Holland 100% automated, of course after putting all the translation-models and conversion-rules into a conversion system. We don't want the offshore companies to walk away with the conversion-jobs and we also want to get the return on many years of investment on developing this intelligent conversion system. What must become clear is what is the right price to ask.

An other service is creating instant reports on almost every question you want to ask about an automated system. The analyzing system inspects the sources of almost any kind. (we don't do prolog and lisp at the moment but we do several dialects of COBOL, assembler, C, PL/I, BASIC, JCL, PSB's, etc. etc.) After analyzing it, you can do all kinds of queries on it; queries that takes a programmer a lot of time to answer. With this system it is only a matter of seconds. Now we want to calculate how much a programmer's productivity has to be improved to be less expensive than the not-advanced automated offshore-outsourcers, how we can position our system as an alternative to outsourcing, that is our main goal, that is why I need some good statistics.

Regards,

Crox

 

[BNPMike]

Relativity are an outfit that turns COBOL into Java etc. Have you checked their pricing?

Can you turn Access into HTML, Javascript and ASP?

 

[Crox]

If anyone can describe how to do it by hand - what the rules are no matter how complex they are - we are able to let the system use them.

In the PL/I to COBOL conversion, we create very readable sources as if they were made by very standard working programmers. Is this also the case with the Java to COBOL conversion of Relativity?

 

[BNPMike]

I was just interviewed by them for a job once. This application modernisation is trying to build up into the current thing (like EAI):

http://www.relativity.com/marketspace.htm

 

[BNPMike]

Is your service marketed in the UK? If not, and you want to, drop me a line at mike@innovations.plus.com.

 

[Crox]

Hi,

I mailed this thread to the director of the company I work with and asked him to answer this question.

Regards,

Crox

 

[mbuell]

Something else to keep in mind: it is not just cost - spec. reducing cost, that contributes to profit. In competing with offshore competition remember what goes into 'competitive advantage'. Labor cost is only small portion of the equation. Geographic proximity offers many advantages - there is a learning and market advantage to being close to your competitors, labor market, and clients.

You are closer, or are closer to someone like your customer than a programmer in India. When we have two-way holographic real/time communication they will be closer to competing on an even ground - but there will still be communication problems generated by experience, language, and social nuance that gives the local an advantage.

http://ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~fmb/articles/outsourcing/

http://www.quickmba.com/strategy/competitive-advantage/

Regards

Mark
<O>
_|_

 

[Crox]

OF COURSE!