Spaces, Fullstops, Etcetera 2

[Dimandja]

I recently created text to be inserted in a client's website. After the end of a sentence, I space over twice or thrice before starting the next sentence.

My client revised the text by eliminating "extraneous spaces" and only keeping one space between sentences.

How many spaces should follow a period (fullstop)?

While you're at it, do you write etc... or simply etc?

By the way, isn't it annoying when someone posts a lengthy message that consists of a single thick paragraph of several dozen lines? Every day I get at least a couple of emails that fit the description; and I have to decide whether to dive into it.

 

[strongm]

>How many spaces should follow a period (fullstop)?

Nowadays, in wordprocessors and the like, just the one.

>etc... or simply etc?

I tend to use etc

When using elipses I try to remember (but don't always suceed) to put a space in both before and after ... like that

 

[CasperTFG]

What I was taught to do was. 2 Spaces after a Full Stop (period), always end any shortened word with a period, and only have 3 sentences per paragraph.

I also try to never use because or but. And that’s about all I remember from English class in grade school.


Casper

There is room for all of gods creatures, "Right Beside the Mashed Potatoes".

 

[LTeeple]

Used to be two spaces following a period (fullstop).

Nowadays, I use one space following a period (fullstop).
That is the standard at my university.


Cheers!
Laura

 

[AnotherHiggins]

I was always taught to use two spaces after a period/full stop. My version of Word accepts either one or two spaces.

I always write etc. with the period/dot. It is an abbreviation, after all.

 

[CasperTFG]

Full stop
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

A full stop or period, also called a full point, is the punctuation mark commonly placed at the end of several different types of sentences in English and several other languages. A period consists of a small dot placed at the bottom of a line of text, thus: "." In typed text, two spaces are generally placed after the full stop, as opposed to one space as after most other punctuation symbols. (Period is an older name than full stop, now used primarily in North America; in other English-speaking countries the newer usage has largely replaced the older.)

In modern English language typographical usage, some debate has arisen around the proper number of trailing spaces after a full stop to separate sentences within a paragraph. Whereas two spaces are still regarded generally by experts to be the more proper usage for monospace typefaces, the inability of most keyboards and word processing software to correctly represent the 1.5 spaces that had previously become standard for typographically proportional (non-monospace) fonts has led to some confusion about how to space between sentences while using word processing tools. Academic usage descriptivists tend to support the notion that a single space after a full stop should be considered standard because of the growing common usage by non-experts. Prescriptivists, meanwhile, adhere to the earlier, and in many ways more practically useful, two space distinction of full stop spacing from spacing within a sentence. With the advent of standardized HTML for rendering webpages, however, the broader distinction between full stop spacing and internal spacing in a sentence has become largely moot on the World Wide Web. Standardized HTML treats additional whitespace after the first space as immaterial, and ignores it when rendering the page.

The term full stop is generally differentiated from that of period in contexts where both might be used by the fact that a full stop is specifically referential of a delimiting punctuation, while a period involves any appropriately sized and placed dot in English language text, to include indicating abbreviation, but excluding certain special uses of dots at the bottom of a line of text like ellipsis points.

The period is also used after abbreviations, such as Mr., Dr., Mrs., Ms. (In the UK, abbreviations that end in the same letter as the word they are abbreviating are often no longer followed by a full stop. In the USA, the older usage is still always adhered to.)

The same glyph is very often used, rather than a mid-line point, as a decimal point (or dot) in English-speaking countries. For example: 3.14159

In computing, it is often used as a delimiter, also called "dot", for example in DNS lookups and file names. For example:

http://www.wikipedia.org

So it's the web that is destroying our language?

Casper

There is room for all of gods creatures, "Right Beside the Mashed Potatoes".

 

[strongm]

My version of Word will accept as many spaces as I like after a fullstop ...

In these modern days of hinted, proportional, justifying fonts the reasons for requiring 2 (or even 3) spaces after a period are long gone

 

[Dimandja]

So it's the web that is destroying our language?

Absolutely! Youngsters type a lot these days - on Internet pages, of course. But, what they type is usually gibberish - for the sake of brevity perhaps. Spelling and other language skills must be practiced if they are to remain intact (correct).

 

[CasperTFG]

Let's leave this thread alone and start a new one on that.

Casper

There is room for all of gods creatures, "Right Beside the Mashed Potatoes".

 

[SQLSister]

One space is the preferred version when you use proportional fonts which are the most common type of font used today. Two spaces are only correct if you are using a typewriter with a nonproportional font such as Courier. This change came about not when people starting using the Internet, but when people started to publish documents by computer rather than having the printer do so. The two spaces after a sentence makes the spacing odd when using proportional fonts. Pick up any book, you will see that printed sentences never have two spaces.

Questions about posting. See faq183-874

 

[strongm]

Quite so

 

[AnotherHiggins]

strongm ,

Hrmph. I hadn't tried that.

Thanks everyone for the input. I may have to rethink my writing style in this regard. But I stand by my use of "etc." with the period.

 

[ESquared]

etc. is an abbreviation of et cetera and means "and so forth." An ellipsis, three periods, so—...- indicate something has been omitted. So, to use both would be strange.

[ul]I like fuzzy animals such as dogs, cats, mice, hamsters, Guinea pigs, ferrets, etc.

I like fuzzy animals such as dogs, cats, mice, hamsters, Guinea pigs, ferrets, and so forth.[/ul]

There is no need to indicate that something is missing. So a single period is proper.

I find it annoying to end a sentence with "etc." and it is confusing about whether it is an abbreviation or full stop, so I rewrite to remove it or move it away from the end of the sentence.

-------------------------------------
A sacrifice is harder when no one knows you've made it.

 

[SantaMufasa]

At my company, the rule is, "Never use 'etc.' or 'etc'; use 'et cetera'." I believe that rule has worked well. The literal Latin translation of 'et cetera' is 'and others'.

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)

http://www.dasages.com

Do you use Oracle and live or work in Utah, USA?
Then click here to join Utah Oracle Users Group on Tek-Tips.

 

[tsdragon]

Since "et cetera" means "and others", technically it is not proper to use it in a sentence where you really mean "and so forth". You should just SAY "and so forth".

Personally, I'm in favor of using "usw." in place of "and so forth", since it means just that in German (und so weiter).

An while we're at it, what's the difference between "etce." and "et al"? I always though "et al" meant "and others".


Tracy Dryden

Meddle not in the affairs of dragons,
For you are crunchy, and good with mustard.

 

[CajunCenturion]

The difference is that Etcetera (etc.) means 'and the rest of the same type', whereas 'et al.' is an abbreviation for 'Et alii' (masculine) or 'Et aliae' (feminine) meaning 'and others' referring specifically to people.

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[SantaMufasa]

Tracy

My bad...literally "cetera" is the plural of "ceterus", meaning (in English) "additional, remaining, rest of". So, "et cetera" literally means "and additional; and remaining; and the rest".

"et al." is the abbreviation of "et alia", Latin for "and others".

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)

http://www.dasages.com

Do you use Oracle and live or work in Utah, USA?
Then click here to join Utah Oracle Users Group on Tek-Tips.

 

[tsdragon]

I like "and the rest". I think I keep that one as my point of reference.

(Please, no Gilligan jokes)

In many crossword puzzles the clue "and others" comes out "et alia". Is that a cross btw the fem and masc forms?


Tracy Dryden

Meddle not in the affairs of dragons,
For you are crunchy, and good with mustard.

 

[SantaMufasa]

et alia" has been spayed/neutered; it is the "neuter" of the masculine, "et alii" and feminie, "et aliae".

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)

http://www.dasages.com

Do you use Oracle and live or work in Utah, USA?
Then click here to join Utah Oracle Users Group on Tek-Tips.

 

[AnotherHiggins]

I cannot find documentation backing this up, but I was taught to use et al. to mean "and all the rest". This has guided me well.

[tt]_____
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[/tt][red]"If you're flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit."[/red]
-Mitch Hedberg

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