Smart Opinions on RAID 1 for Audio Editing / Video Editing PC vs Single Drive with Backup to Second 1

[kjv1611]

For my church, I'm in process of putting in a "new" PC - not new, but new to us. I want to talk about the 2 options of RAID, and consider whether it's worth bothering with at all vs just backing up from Drive1 to Drive2. (Yes, RAID is NOT Backup - go ahead and get that out of the way).

Relevant specs:
[ul][li]Asus Z97-A motherboard. (supports RAID)[/li]
[li]4th Gen i7[/li]
[li]2.5 SATA SSD for OS[/li]
[li]Windows 10[/li]
[li]2 WD 6TB SATA 3.5 Hard Drives for Data[/li][/ul]

On old Q6600 system, I have:
[OL][LI]2.5 SSD for OS[/LI]
[LI]One 3.5 SATA HDD for Audio Recordings[/LI]
[LI]Second 3.5 SATA HDD for other Data[/LI]
[LI]Backup of 3.5 Audio HDD to folder on 2nd 3.5 HDD[/LI][/OL]

*AGAIN - RAID IS NOT BACKUP*

Not going to spend extra on a dedicated hardware RAID card, so that's out of the picture.

What opinions to folks here have. Should I:
[OL][LI]Continue with my same process with new system: AudioDrive backed-up to folder on DataDrive[/LI]
[LI]Use Windows to setup a RAID 1 between the 2 drives (I have enough space for everything on one)[/LI]
[LI]Use the Motherboard RAID configuration to setup a RAID 1[/LI]
[LI]Some other idea I'm overlooking[/LI][/OL]

My initial plan is:
[OL][LI]Setup the new system as the Audio Recording (M-Audio 1010LT PCI Sound Card) / Editing / CD Making system initially.[/LI]
[LI]If things go well with that over a few weeks/month(s), proceed[/LI]
[LI]Add the Hardware HDMI-IN card and at least one additional HDD for video capturing up on the same cmoputer[/LI]
[LI]See how this goes after a few weeks/months[/LI]
[LI]Former computers will be parted out and/or kept as backup in case "new" main system croaks before replaced.[/LI][/OL]

One additional note: No Internet connection at church, which is both a curse and a blessing, more a blessing than a curse, really.

Thanks for any thoughts along the way. My current opinion is though I have considered a RAID setup, that I'll likely go with just using all drives separately, since I'll later add in Video, and this would keep the setup much simpler. But if someone thinks there's a good reason to RAID, I may still consider it.


"But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 15:57

 

[Beilstwh]

personally with 2 available hard drives both with 6 terabytes and the motherboard natively supporting raid 1 (disk mirroring) I would setup the 2 drives as a raid 1 array. That way if one of the drives goes south, your system will keep running while you purchase a new replacement drive, but it in the computer and let the raid re-sync the new drive.

Bill
Lead Application Developer
New York State, USA

 

[kjv1611]

Thanks for the thoughts. What are your thoughts on RAID1 vis Windows 10 OS vs the Motherboard's software? It sounds to me as if Windows' RAID handling could be better or just as good as the motherboard's onboard RAID setup.

"But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 15:57

 

[Beilstwh]

They both have their pros and cons.

Mother Board raid
Pros - Supported at the hardware level so that if your windows Operating software crashes, the raid will be fine.
Cons - Typically the raid management depends on the manufacturer so if your motherboard crashes and you get another brands motherboard to replace it you raid might be unreadable.

Windows based Raid.
Pros - The hardware recognizes both drives as separate devices but windows handles the 2 volumes as a single volume. If you have to replace the hardware for any reason the raid volume will still be usable.

Cons - The Raid 1 volume can only be accessed via windows and if the Operating System is corrupted you can loose access to the data.


In an enterprise setup, I would use a storage array and a dedicated raid controller 100% of the time but you are talking about a standalone computer for your church. I would use the windows raid software because it gives me the maximum flexibility.

One additional point. Wither you use the Mother Board raid or windows software raid buy one more external drive that you can do regular backups to. I say an external drive because after the regular backup it should be taken offsite. This protects your data against fire and theft. and if you lose critical data it can be restored from the backup drive.

Bill
Lead Application Developer
New York State, USA

 

[kjv1611]

Is it not true that if you setup RAID via Windows, and the whole system crashes but one drive, you can easily pull the data off the one good drive? Pretty sure I've done that in the past, but it's been at least 5 or 6 years.

"But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 15:57

 

[Beilstwh]

yes that is true because to the hardware, each drive is separate. However if it is a hardware supported raid and your accessing it using a different manufactures mother board it might not be readable. This is another reason why I suggested Windows. When I say you could lose access to both drives I meant through windows. of course just accessing the drive from another machine will always work fine.

Bill
Lead Application Developer
New York State, USA

 

[kjv1611]

Yeah, that's what I'm after: Machine crashes, but at least one drive survives, I can still get the data.

I've got a couple USB drives (old) that I might could at least use to backup the most important items until the next budget year as well. And worst case scenario, I have to piece it together from what I have at home (which is likely 99.99% of it anyway). Considering I've done 99.999% of all that stuff anyway for now 13 years, I probably should just start a BACKUP routine between my data and the church sound data where I rotate external hard drives anyway. That'll give me offsite backup for both. And I go both places all the time, so I wouldn't have to go out of my way.

"But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 15:57

 

[goombawaho]

If I'm not mistaken: With RAID 1, I don't believe that any hardware or software RAID would render the data unreadable on another computer. Because each drive is an exact copy of the raw data. So, unless you're talking about a higher level of RAID, I don't think recovery (assuming one data disk is still alive, one data disk is dead, motherboard is dead, boot drive dead) would be a problem. You can connect the one drive to any computer and get the data. RAID 0, RAID 5, etc., forget about it.

Whatever you decide, I would buy something like Macrium to image your operating system disk to the RAID 1 array a couple times a week. Then if your boot drive dies, you can easily put in a new SSD and image it back over in about 20 minutes or less.

Funny you should post this. I just got an email this morning from a customer. She wants a new PC built for her with RAID1 and I was wondering if I should do two SSDs in RAID or go for a boot SSD + two spinning drives for storage. She doesn't have that much data so a two drive RAID made of SSDs is possible. Sorry, not trying to hijack.

"Living tomorrow is everyone's sorrow.
Modern man's daydreams have turned into nightmares.

 

[Beilstwh]

While the probability of a hardware raid 1 being unreadable is small, it is still there because the propriority firmware on the board will write and maintain the 2 volumes using it's own method of storage which might be unreadable by another vendors firmware.

Bill
Lead Application Developer
New York State, USA

 

[goombawaho]

I guess I would disagree with that premise, although you did say small probability. Need to Google to satisfy my curiosity.


"Living tomorrow is everyone's sorrow.
Modern man's daydreams have turned into nightmares.

 

[kjv1611]

Yeah, funny timing there, goombawaho.

My limited experience with RAID 1 setups has been I could easily pull out a RAID 1 drive, and it had 100% of the data readable on another Windows computer. But it's been several years, and that experience being limited, I figured worth asking around.

I really like the idea of backing up the system drive to the RAID array for sure. I'm actually thinking about trying Veeam backup client, b/c their desktop backup client is free and does a bare metal backup. I was already planning on trying it at home sometime in the hopefully near future, but this would be a good test as well.

I've read a lot of good things about Veeam so far. It's mainly a commercial product, but that's their whole disaster recovery / off-site backup stuff. Their desktop level stuff is free for any sort of use.

"But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 15:57

 

[goombawaho]

See my other thread for a list of all the best options I could think of:
http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1781389

The only reason I mention Macrium is that A)I use it and B)I have tested a bare metal recovery and it works and is easy to use.

"Living tomorrow is everyone's sorrow.
Modern man's daydreams have turned into nightmares.

 

[goombawaho]

Forgot link: Link

"Living tomorrow is everyone's sorrow.
Modern man's daydreams have turned into nightmares.

 

[kjv1611]

There are several good software packages out there. I do also still like Terabyte Unlimited's programs as well, if they are staying up to date. I used it for a small business several years ago, and we did have to use it once during that time. It worked 100% of the time. We actually ended up having to use 2 backups I did for that one: Entire separate copy of system drive AND once a software restore with Terabyte Unlimited's backup software. And seems like another time I fixed something with the BootIT program of there's as well. Pretty neat stuff, really.

"But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 15:57

 

[kjv1611]

Of course now another post in goombawaho's thread has got me thinking about the RAID vs single drive and backup to other:
thread602-1781389

technome mentioned how refurb drives oftentimes will fail in RAID but run fine in single-drive mode, or at least that sounded like the gist of his reply. Also, it was mentioned earlier in the discussion at least in passing.

So now I need to see: is it possible I can test drives in the RAID 1 array before putting into production to verify whether or not the RAID will be fully functional? More research, I suppose.

"But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 15:57

 

[kjv1611]

Maybe I should look at "Storage Spaces" in Windows 10 in the audio computer setup?

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/12438/windows-10-storage-spaces

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-use-storage-spaces-windows-10

https://www.howtogeek.com/109380/how-to-use-windows-8s-storage-spaces-to-mirror-combine-drives/

Sounds very interesting. Matter of fact, it sounds a LOT like what Microsoft had built into their Windows Home Server setup which was discontinued.



"But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 15:57

 

[goombawaho]

I wouldn't worry about drives working in RAID and being "fully functional" as long as you get drives that are made to be in RAID. Not all hard drives are meant to be in RAID. Usually there is a feature they have or don't have that tells you whether they should be used in RAID or not. It's called TLER for Western Digital, for example. You WANT drives that have that feature.
Link

"Living tomorrow is everyone's sorrow.
Modern man's daydreams have turned into nightmares.

 

[kjv1611]

Yeah, WD Black are not TLER by default. Supposedly a while back with some you could change that, but my guess is WD has fixed it by now so you cannot do so.

However, WD says TLER is not required for "consumer grade" RAID 0/1 setups with only 2 drives:

https://support.wdc.com/knowledgebase/answer.aspx?ID=996

They list Blue, Green, Black as AOK for 2 drive RAID such as motherboard or OS RAID setups.

It's an interesting discussion.

I won't be doing it anytime soon, but I have a slight itch to eventually piece together a new RAID array setup with RAID card and advanced RAID at home again. I did this with RAID 6 years ago, and it worked very well. It was all cheap hardware, but it worked great. I'd say regardless of my itch, it ain't likely I'll build an advanced RAID setup. I don't really need it anyway, and it's not like I have money burning a hole in my pocket.

"But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 15:57

 

[goombawaho]

Well, back in the IDE days, I had a RAID1 and periodically a drive would fall out of the RAID. I don't recall seeing that little tidbit of knowledge when I last shopped for drives to go into a RAID setup. It seemed to me that at that point they were saying only the enterprise drives should be used in RAID.

"Living tomorrow is everyone's sorrow.
Modern man's daydreams have turned into nightmares.

 

[kjv1611]

I know I've run:
Motherboard software RAID 1 on Velociraptors
Hardware RAID 0 on Raptors
Hardware RAID 6 on WD AAAKS 500 GB Drives (model # is not exact - I forget the long string) - 5 drives

However, I have searched a bunch online after these discussions. There's some with zero problems running WD Blacks in RAID 0/1 and others that have had real-life instances of RAID killing off WD Blacks.

I was thinking I had run WD Blacks in RAID 1, but trying to remember, maybe I never did.

I may just end up trying the storage pools setup in Windows 10, since it sounds like a really good setup from everything I can find so far. And if I don't get that going, I'll just stick to my age-old process of backing up from one drive to another.


"But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 15:57