SIP trunking and MBG

[Mitelpassion]

I have a scenario and I'm not sure if this will work so I'm running it past the brainiacs that frequent this great site.

Have a customer with multiple nodes. For this scenario I'll work with 10. Customer wants nodes to 'talk' to each other. I want to achieve this by SIP trunking them. IP networking too expensive.

Each node must have ability to make 3 simultaneous calls to anyone of the other 9 nodes. With the licensing on MCD, you can only assign SIP T channels per profile on a permanent basis as apposed to assigning 3 SIP Trunks to each one of the 9 branches and use those SIP T channels on a first come first serve basis (concurrency). So by definition the client's requirement would mean 3 SIP T's per SIP Peer Profile x qty of nodes. That equates to 27 SIP T licenses per controller (9 Profiles x 3 SIP T's each) which total 270 licenses (9 profiles x 3 SIP T's X 10 nodes) for the entire solution.
A lot of licenses and configuration required.

I'd like to get around this by doing the following:
Each node with 3 SIP T's all assigned to a single SIP Peer Profile pointing to MBG. MBG has connections to all 10 controllers. MBG uses concurrency licensing so 10 nodes programmed as SIP termination points at a ratio of 1:2 I can get away with 15 SIP T licenses on MBG as apposed to 30 for a 1:1 ratio ( I think my math here is correct, feel free to critisise)

My questions:
1. Will MBG allow this kind of 'routing' in other words take calls from one controller and pass it to another controller? Will be using MBG 6.0 - it has DID translation.

2. Will MBG allow me to specify a controller in it's configuration as a SIP Trunk termination?

3. What is the best version of software on the controller side to allow for this. For instances version 7's SIP capabilities were limited at best.

4. Would transcoding on MBG work as a means of compression in order to save on having to upgrade 10 controllers with DSP cards and resources?

Note the 10 nodes I'm referring to is actually a lot more but I just used this qty of nodes to make explaining this easier.

In theory this should work right?

any input is appreciate.

Thanks

 

[Supernova99]

I know what you are trying to do and maybe it will work but it is a fudge with some feature loss due to SIP limitations.

As from Rel 4.0 onwards if you have more than one 3300 controller you are classed as an enterprise user. As such IP trunking, Resiliency and alarm reporting are included in the system licence.
With this in mind your client does not have an issue, and can have 200 trunks per system with full Mitai messaging that features.

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[Mitelpassion]

more than one controller WITH IP Networking licensed one is classed as Enterprise User.

Features not the issue. Customers have a point, why pay that amount of money for IP networking when SIP T will give them want they want. They not concerned about features.

Having said that though the caveat here is the fact that the SIP T licensing model on the system is not concurrency based. I would imagine for a reason.

The only other way would be to use another 3300 as a routing entity. So all controllers have a SIP Peer profile pointing to this 'routing' controller. The routing controller will have SIP Peer profiles set up for all the controllers.

Still no closer to an answer. Thanks for the input though.

 

[Supernova99]

I think using a CX controller as a SIP gateway could be a cheap IP networking option.
If you purchase a CX with 30 SIP trunk licences using 3 trunks to each controller x 10 and purchase 3 SIP trunks per network controller then this could work.
If you route all network traffic via your 3 SIP trunks to the new CX SIP gateway and then the SIP gateway can route to any of the network controllers with 3 SIP trunks per controller.
As I see it you will need 30 SIP Trunk licences (3 for each system) a CX controller with 30 SIP Trunk licences
I have just put this through Sales Workbench and without any discounts applied seems very cost effective compared to IP Networking
30 SIP trunk £2400 (UK Pounds)
1 x CX Gateway with 30 SIP trunks £3556

Compared to 10 x IP Networking £17,250

If features are not a consideration then this could work.
There are as you know some SIP feature issues, transfers MWI etc. that come to mind but general voice should be fine.

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[Mitelpassion]

Now we on the same page Supernova.
Exactly my thinking!

I started a new thread asking the same as you suggested with regards to a controller doing the routing work for you.
I have every reason to believe that it'll work. Really hoping someone has tried it in the field though....

Thanks for the input, much appreciated

 

[LoopyLou]

I think supernova's original point is that in going to release 4.1 software if you are classified as an enterprise then IP trunks is included in a system. It would be interesting to see if you went to 4.1 whether you would gain the IP licensing ( for free ) in the new AMC record. Don't know what the Mitel policy would be.


otherwise Supernova99 has an interesting proposal. It should work with a lot of ARS in the SIP trunk gateway.

Pros: cheap
Cons: loss of features over SIP trunks
no cluster therefore no resiliency, no pass through, no SDS or RDN

Good luck.
no SDS or RDN

The single biggest problem with communications is the illusion that it has taken place.

 

[slapin]

If you have to use MBG on a separate server, then use Asterisk as a SIP router. Or any other free system. Simple SIP proxy which will just pass through signaling will work for you.

Regarding lost features. IP trunking is not using MiNET. It looks more like modified DPNSS riding IP transport. Plus I noticed that SIP trunking is reacting in similar way to IP trunking between 3300 controllers when it handles media channels, so I would assume that there is some sort of internal adaptor converting IP trunking signaling to SIP.

 

[Supernova99]

IP networking is a wrapper for dpnss signalling however it does use virtual channel signalling to pass mitel specific messaging between controllers.
SIP is a generic standard and although Mitel supports various standards it does not contain any Mitel specific options. Hence loss of certain features and functions.

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[Mitelpassion]

issue is the controllers have to register somewhere. MBG wont register them so I think it may not work after all.

Am investigating using the controller as a SIP router....

Will feedback once tested

Thanks for all the replies

 

[Supernova99]

Hence why I suggested a cheap CX controller with just SIP trunks licenced to it.

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[Mitelpassion]

advice taken thanks.
anyone set up truks between 3300 before. Tried it but not working at this point.

read on of my other posts MOL has an article on it but couldn't find it - anyone perhaps have a copy of this.

thanks