Shake a Dead Cat

[CajunCenturion]

Does anyone know the etymology of the phrase: "shake a dead cat"?

Thanks.


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[mscallisto]

I thought it was from the Adventures of Huckleberry Finn (sounds like something Mark Twain (Sam Clemens) would say but I failed to find the quote in the complete text

http://www.enotes.com/adventures-of-huckleberry-finn-text/chapter-v-pap-starts-new-life

It may be just a variation of "shake a stick at" ???

I too would like to know the origin.

sam

 

[BadBigBen]

perhaps, it is from the Middle-Ages, when the Black-Death ravaged throughout Europe...

During the Middle-Ages, a lot of phrases originated through superstition and through the fear that the Church instilled in the people...

"Since many equated the Black Death with God's wrath against sin, and cats were often considered in league with the Devil due to their aloof and independent nature, cats were killed in masses." Source: Wikipedia...



Ben
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[kwbMitel]

I believe this is one of those things where multiple sayings have been joined into a new saying that although the meaning is somehow preserved through close approximation the analysis leaves something to be desired.

Room to swing a cat:
Debatable Meaning- having enough room to swing a Cat-O-Nine-Tails (whip)

Room to swing a dead cat:
Variation of above - assuming the Cat is feline and Dead

More than you can Shake a stick at: Debatable meaning: A quantity greater than that which might be held off with a stick.

Shake a Dead Cat At:
Combination of all those above and possibly more.

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

 

[BadBigBen]

after doing a bit more research, I am for what KwbMitel stated, basically that it is a conjoined phrase out of two or more phrases...

btw. I never even seen that phrase before this thread, where and when did you come across it? @CC

"Shake a stick at" - new this and have heard it lots of time...

We have in Lancaster as many Taverns as you can shake a stick at.
-- Lancaster Journal (Pennsylvania), August 5, 1818



Ben
"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."
How to ask a question, when posting them to a professional forum.
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[CajunCenturion]

==> I never even seen that phrase before this thread, where and when did you come across it? @CC
My wife wanted to use the phrase in a certain setting, but wanted to be sure of its history so as not to give the wrong impression. I did some quick research (don't have time to go into depth right now), but to no avail. I told her that I wasn't sure, but that I would bring it up with other members of the "research team".

The "shake a stick at" has been around a very long time and has iterated through several different meanings, including the possibility of it coming from a counting coup or a coup stick. No one knows for sure.

kwbMitel may be correct; it may very well be an amalgamation of several different phrases. The theory is fine, and it's an understandable theory, but is there any evidence, or citations, to support it? I'm a little concerned about the progression because there is evidence that 'swinging a cat', to mean a confined space, predates the use of cat-o'-nine-tails as a whip.

Granted, conjecture is all we have right now, but that's not enough to risk public usage of the phrase. We may never know and if not, so be it. We won't use the phrase in that setting.

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[Turkbear]

Hi,
The public uses it a lot, apparently:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...=4869l4869l0l6320l1l1l0l0l0l0l155l155l0.1l1l0

To Paraphrase:"The Help you get is proportional to the Help you give.."

 

[JCreamerII]

I'm going for a different thought. Shaking the cat to see if it used up it's nine lives?

Jim C.

 

[SamBones]

I don't believe I've ever heard "shake a dead cat" before either. I have heard "shake a stick at" and "swing a dead cat", but not shake a dead cat. Could it be a badly mixed metaphor or colloquialism?

Just because people use it, doesn't mean it's corerct.

http://therussler.tripod.com/dtps/mixed_metaphors.html

http://www.jimcarlton.com/my_favorite_mixed_metaphors.htm

 

[kwbMitel]

@ CajunCenturion:

Could you clarify for me what the intended meaning was to be when your wife used the expression?

Or was/is this just an intellectual exercise in determining said meaning and etymology.

My father was a significant user of idioms such as these. I find that I have acquired the talent by osmosis. I quite often use expressions that leave my children with vacant looks when the meaning is completely lost. The meaning is sometimes contexual but quite often it appears that the meaning is achieved through life experience or culture exposure. I won't even try to pretend that I analyse things beyond this level. I'm interested to say the least but I simply don't have the tools and background to go deeper than than that.

I think this subject - The idioms and how they are used would make a great thread but I won't hijack this one by starting that discussion now.

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

 

[CajunCenturion]

==> Could you clarify for me what the intended meaning was to be when your wife used the expression?
It's not about an intended meaning; it's about the proper meaning. In other words, it's not about using it based on what you believe it means, but using it properly based on what it actually means. No, it's not an exercise, it's a fact-finding endeavor, even though there may not be any facts to find.

==> I quite often use expressions that leave my children with vacant looks when the meaning is completely lost. The meaning is sometimes contexual but quite often it appears that the meaning is achieved through life experience or culture exposure.
As have we all, but therein lies the point. If one uses an idiom that relies on life experiences and/or cultural references to be understood, and one subsequently leaves their audience with blank looks, then one has failed to get their message across. For this situation, using a idiom takes a clear backseat to communicating the right message.

==> The idioms and how they are used would make a great thread but I won't hijack this one by starting that discussion now.
That's a great idea, and yes, it's generally not a good idea to hijack any thread. However, you are more than welcome, and encouraged, to start a new thread for that discussion.

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[assets]

freeze to balls of a brass monkey

Cannon balls on the frame that holds them

Never give up never give in.

There are no short cuts to anything worth doing

 

[SamBones]

Mr. Bond, impeccably dressed in a fashionable black tuxedo, confidently walked up and sat at the only open seat at the high stakes Baccarat table. Setting down a handful of 100,000 Pound plaques, he looked into the deep blue eyes of the well endowed cocktail waitress, and with a hint of a smile gave his order. "A dead cat ... shaken, not stirred."

 

[CajunCenturion]

Such dry wit

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Good Luck
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Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something. - Plato

 

[N1GHTEYES]

I'd say it was purrfect.

Tony

 

[BadBigBen]

had me jumping like a "cat on a hot tin roof"...



Ben
"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."
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[Annihilannic]

It occurs to me that shaking a dead cat would be somewhat safer than shaking a live one.

Annihilannic
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[SamBones]

I love the way these threads, full of intelligent discourse and analysis of language and life, can spiral into corny puns at the drop of a cat, er, hat.

 

[N1GHTEYES]

Surely, that should be "at the shake of a cat"?

Tony

 

[BadBigBen]

all is well, as long as it is not a "shake&bake" thing that one swings...


Ben
"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."
How to ask a question, when posting them to a professional forum.
Only ask questions with yes/no answers if you want "yes" or "no"