*seemingly* random shutdown 4

[AndrewWolford]

Hi everyone,

I hope I'm posting this in the correct forum. I have a computer that appears to be randomly shutting down. Its an Athlon 1.4 with an Asus motherboard. I have Windows XP.

Here's a description of the problem: I'll be using the computer and without warning it will simply turn off. Most of the time I cannot get it to start back up again. I've tried flipping the power switch on the back of the case and unplugging the whole computer. Sometimes, if I do this over and over it will start back up. Most the time only to again turn off again. Sometimes it will make it into Windows, other times it will turn off at some point in the startup process.

This same thing happened a few weeks ago. I let the computer sit for a day, tried to start it up again and it booted up fine and worked up until yesterday. I'm sure there could be a million causes to this problem but does anyone have some suggestions as to where to begin?

I'm thinking it could be an electrical problem? The case is, for lack of a better term, a piece of crap. Its been dropped, and I think its possible that a wire has come loose. Does this sound like a possibility? I suppose it could also be a hardware conflict or something in the BIOS? Thanks and I appreciate any help!

-Andrew

 

[shmoes]

I would check that the heatsink is properly attached to your CPU and that the fan is working.

Sounds like you're overheating.

 

[AndrewWolford]

Thanks Shmoes,

That's what I initially thought too, and really all the signs are there. Its been a problem before and I finally had to remove the cover off my case to get air circulating. The fan's are noisy and I dont think work very well.

However, right when it turns off I'll touch the heatsink and it will barely be warm. If it was overheating wouldn't the heatsink we extremely hot?

(Just as an update, I turned the computer on this morning after letting it sit all night and it started up, ran for about 8 minutes, then turned off and wouldn't start again)

 

[smah]

Could also be the power supply overheating.

 

[AndrewWolford]

If it was the power supply overheating, it would be hot to the touch right? It sounds like the consensus is that its a heat related problem. If so, setting up a desk-top fan to blow into the computer should temporarily relieve the problem correct?

Also, if this is heat related, why is the problem so inconsistent? It happened for 2 days a few weeks ago, completely went away, and now the problem is back. Shouldn't this problem happen every time I use the computer if in fact it is a heat problem?

Thank you all for your responses!

-Andrew

 

[shmoes]

Heatsinks are designed to absorb and disburse heat. if it's not properly attached it's not absorbing. therefore it's not hot.

I hate to admit it, but i wasn't paying attention onetime and attached the heatsink upsidedown. Computer problems were so erratic it was driving me nuts. After going through everything I finally ... pulled the heatsink off and noticed my misalignment. It was cool to the touch.

I'm not saying it IS your heatsink, but it should be something to check. The randomness of it, would be based on the load you're taxing the computer with i would assume. sometimes it's great, sometimes it's not.

also, you should be able to check the bios for cpu temps? and most bios's have a shutdown tempature.

 

[AndrewWolford]

Thanks for all your help guys. I'm going to try putting a big fan next to my computer tonight and see if that fixes the problem. It might be time to order a new case...

-Andrew

 

[bcastner]

What bothers me is that it takes a long time before the machine becomes startable.

This sounds like a capacitor holding a charge that should be discharged in normal operation. Over time the current drains and you can restart.

You can make a rough guess as to what it is not. If you flip the switch and hear the case fan and drives power on, it is not the power supply. If all is quiet when you flip the power switch it is certainly the power supply.

 

[Zych]

It could also be memory or a rogue program. Download and run Memtest86. It will create a bootable disk that you boot from and tests memory. From my experience most random things happen with memory or rogue programs. If this is not the problem then I would look at the CPU or PSU. Also check and make sure your BIOS is setup correctly and you have the most up to date drivers.

- Zych

 

[AndrewWolford]

Thanks guys,

After it "dies" I flip the switch and absolutely nothing happens. Sometimes the light on my CD-rom flashes once, but nothing powers up. So you think it might be the power supply? Is that fixable outside of ordering a new one?

If it's a capacitor holding a charge how would I test it and how would I know what component it belongs to?

If it's a memory issue: I have a second stick of memory that I haven't put in yet. If I replace my current memory with the new stick and it still doesnt work is it safe to say it's not a memory issue? (i'll try that tonight)

Finally, I was planning on resetting my CMOS jumper and restoring all my BIOS defaults to see if it was a system setting that was making it unstable. Do you think that could be it?

Again, thanks guys for all your help. I'll have a lot to look at tonight!

 

[BadBigBen]

Hi there sorry if I burst in with a few thoughts...

Bcastner - sorry but the statement about the PSU isn't quite correct... ergo I had a PSU that seemed to function, fans came on and all the drives lit, but not the Mobo... after replacing the PSU everything was fine...

Andrew - it does sound like a heat issue where the temp sensors tell the MoBo to cut power before there is any damage done to the CPU or the ChipSet...

I would also check for any loose wiring or plugs in the case... as mentioned before, check that heatsink on the CPU, make sure that there is enough and not too much paste in use aswell as the correct placement of the heatsink...

Ben

 

[bcastner]

BigBadBen,

You misread my post. I said if nothing powers on, no fans not disks, it is the PSU. My metric did not include fans and disk coming on and therefore the motherboard would power on.

 

[AndrewWolford]

bcastner,

It sounds like you think this is a power supply issue rather than a heat issue? Is this correct? Sounds like I should just order a new case with more fans... Thanks for your help!

-Andrew

 

[bcastner]

It is a power supply issue. If it was a heat issue with the processor it would go away in 20 minutes, and at least the case fan would still be blowing away. Now if somebody tells me it is a heat issue with the power supply then I would not argue with them. I'd still replace the power supply.

 

[AndrewWolford]

bcastner,

Thanks for your help. I wouldn't rule out a heat issue with the power supply. I think the power supply fan gave out sometime back so that could be the cause of some excess heat. I think either way I'll just get a new case as this one is pretty beat up. Again thanks for your help and keep you guys posted on what it turns out to be.

-Andrew

 

[shmoes]

The fact of the power supply fan giving out a while back was an important piece of information =)

But, It looks like you have a game plan, and i'd like to know how it turns out.

~Shmoes

I lay claim to nothing and everything. My words may be wisdom or disaster. In the end you make a choice. Noone is perfect.

 

[AndrewWolford]

Well I set up a box fan blowing directly into my computer and its been running fine. In the BIOS I went to the PC health menu and it said my Pwr Fan (I assume thats my power supply fan) is at 0 rpm. My CPU fan was at 4700 rpm. So I hope that this is the only problem! I ordered a new case tonight with power supply and fans so I think that should permanently solve the problem. I'll let you guys know should it "act up" again. Thanks for all your help!

-Andrew

 

[BadBigBen]

Hi there,

Bcastner - yep you where right... I did misread your post... and I humbly appologize... thanx for pointing this out... and I promise to read thoroughly in the future...

oh from the info supplied by Andrew it sounded like a TEMPERATURE problem not a PSU problem... but then again if the plug of the PSU to the MoBo is loose it will produce the same symptoms (sporadic shutdowns and restart problems)... happened to me once before...

Ben

 

[bcastner]

BigBadBen,

no problem.

What's funny is that it is likely a heat issue within the power supply.

The fan not working is a good clue.

 

[BadBigBen]

Bcastner,

well that little bit of information came a little late in the thread... I've heard of PSU's which have a thermal shutdown property, even though I've never seen one...

one never stops to learn in life...

Ben