Salaried employees + excessive hours

[cdeer]

To All,

Can anyone point me in the right direction? Basically I'm looking for information on how may extra hours are salaried employees expected to work before getting paid overtime or extra compensation.

Scenario:
Normal pay period is two weeks (80 hrs). Due to influx of work and a decrease of employees, my salaried manager is putting in 50 extra hours (on top of the normal 80) a pay period with out getting paid for them.

Shouldn’t he be paid for the extra hours? I know that salaried employees should make a little more to cover the unforeseen times when extra hours are needed but 50 hours? At what point can you say “That’s too many hours”.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[fredericofonseca]

which country?

If in a EU country then the Time Directive applies unless an excemption has been granted to the particular area of business you are on, or if you have waived your rights when signing your employment contract (which you can then revoke whenever you wish!!)


All working hours should be paid.

See thread717-1276614 for similar situation.

Regards

Frederico Fonseca
SysSoft Integrated Ltd

http://www.syssoft-int.com

 

[SantaMufasa]

CDeer: US, right?

In the US, if you feel you are being overworked, you have rights: The right to resign.

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I can provide you with low-cost, remote Database Administration services: see our website and contact me via www.dasages.com]

 

[cdeer]

Sorry about that, it's Virginia, USA.

I get the feeling as soon as you're salaried the company can expect you to work 24x7.

Chris

 

[SQLSister]

THe best place to ask your question is at the Virginia Department of Labor. They will be in your phone book.

Questions about posting. See faq183-874
Click here to help with Hurricane Relief

 

[MasterRacker]

In the USA, the Fair Labor Standards Act defines who is entitled to minumum wage and overtime and who is "exempt". Unfortunately executives and "skilled computer professionals" fall into the exempt category.

http://www.dol.gov/compliance/guide/minwage.htm

If you're exempt, your essentially hosed - you work however many hours are necessary to get the work done. Enlightened management will obvioulsy try not to burn thier people out, but long hours are an occupational hazard.

_____
Jeff
[small][purple]It's never too early to begin preparing for [/purple]International Talk Like a Pirate Day
"The software I buy sucks, The software I write sucks. It's time to give up and have a beer..." - Me[/small]

 

[gbaughma]

It really depends on your boss, too....

For example, we're doing some training next week for "second shift", which means that I'll be staying later.

The boss told me I could leave early on Friday, after having stayed late on Thursday.

I have, in the past, in job negotiations when they've mentioned salary stated "I will work up to 45 hours per week... after that, I expect to be compensated." I didn't do that here, it didn't really seem necessary with an understanding boss.



Just my 2¢

"In order to start solving a problem, one must first identify its owner." --Me
--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[dennisbbb]

If this is ongoing, get out fast. It smells like a slave driver company.

 

[zeitghost]

I thought that.

Isn't slavery illegal?

 

[philhege]

gbaughma, when you told the interviewer about your "salaried overtime" requirement, how many times were you shown the door? I know hiring execs that would laugh out loud at that one.

cdeer, like MasterRacker said, if you're salaried/exempt, you're hosed. Case closed. No rights, no recourse except to find other employment.

Phil Hegedusich
Senior Programmer/Analyst
IIMAK

http://www.iimak.com

-----------
I'll have the roast duck with the mango salsa.

 

[FXP]

Someone had mentioned in the US if you are an "exempt" employee you are hosed. This is true, but you can try to negotiate with your boss for non-salary benefits. This usually comes down to compensating time off or some other perk. You have to bring the basic unfairness of the current schedule to the bosses attention. If you don't say anything, most bosses will not bring it up. I personally would extract something or if this doesn't work, leave as fast as you can. This is not an organization you can rely on for your future wellbeing.

 

[aarenot]

when things are slow, come in later, take long lunches, leave early, or just don't come in at all. you are salaried, so you can also take a break whenever you feel like it, so take as many as you need. i have had salaried bosses who are at the office for 12 hours a day take a 2 hour nap in their office every day, an hour lunch, and a break every two hours for 15-30 minutes.

if you have direct reports, delegate some of your work load to them. everyone can find 10 minutes a day of what they do which can be done by a direct report. give them all ten minutes of stuff to do, and make some room for yourself.

You do not always get what you pay for, but you never get what you do not pay for.

 

[pmonett]

or just don't come in at all

Bad idea without the approval of your manager. And that could be insufficient if they have decided to get rid of you.

You are under contract, which means that you're supposed to be there on time for the full duration of the work day. Anything outside of that is grounds for dismissal unless you have proof of authorization (written, of course). It's the company that sets the work hours, not you.

When a manager is comprehensive, you often don't need that kind of insurance, but remember one thing : they only have to consider one slip to throw you out. Go lax on your presence, even if work is slow, and you might find yourself in front of a security guard one Monday morning, with your stuff in a box.

Pascal.

 

[aarenot]

yes, that is true pascal. i did not mean to say to do so without your proper authorization. although it is a good time, when things are slow to make your dental, medical, etc. apointments that would recieve approval for release from work.

You do not always get what you pay for, but you never get what you do not pay for.

 

[gbaughma]

I'm salaried, and I'm expected to work 8-4 every day, and longer if needed. I'm on call all the time. If I were to decide to take a long lunch break, or Bob forbid, not come in at all, I would be written up and eventually terminated, period.

Being salaried means that you have a built-in work ethic (no digs about how much I'm on TT during the day though!)



Just my 2¢

"In order to start solving a problem, one must first identify its owner." --Me
--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[smedvid]

I honestly believe the level of abuse of asking exempt employees to work excessive OT is on the rise. My wife who was just fired, or rather given a choice to resign or get fired and claim unemployment, worked over 150 hours OT in 3 months. In some days work 19 hours a day. Some of the individuals work reported to her were entitled to OT Pay, and were making a yearly salary very very close (<$1000) to hers. So, what is the answer? Change jobs may be the only option... Management does not want to hear it, request for OT Pay. Good luck...

FYI: I may post more on my wife's issue later, since she was fired over an ethical issue of changing grades for students that failed....

Steve Medvid
&quot;IT Consultant & Web Master&quot;

http://www.saveourfarm.com

Chester County, PA Residents
Please Show Your Support...

 

[aarenot]

gb,
i did not mean to challenge your work ethic. i did mean to say that when things are slow, schedule more of the 'acceptable' activities that may cut into your normal work hours.
i have been salaried, and hourly, the difference is if you get paid by the job, or by the hour. my experience tells me the method of payment does not determine the work ethic, but the individual does. i am sure your work ethic would be the same whether you were hourly, or salaried.


in my field we have different types of service, time and materials, or service contracts. one pays by the time that is used based on the premiums involved for work during that calendar period[ie out of hours rate], the other includes all services specified at one price per calendar period. the customer chooses the type they desire with it's advantages, and disadvantages, each have their specific ones. we as employees make that same choice.

i sit here on my own time on tt not being paid, that is my choice as i am hourly. i may not get 40 hours all the time, but i do get ot when you exceed my 40 hours for the week. i work time and materials, you work a service contract, little difference other than that. i am still expected to respond as needed whether i am within my paid time, or not. i see little difference.

You do not always get what you pay for, but you never get what you do not pay for.

 

[gbaughma]

I worked for a phone company for a while, and they had a "billable bonus".

If at least 80% of my time was *directly billable* to the customer, I got a $$/hour bonus.

Of course, the pressure from the boss was to make that 80% all the time. However, that brings to mind entirely different ethical issues.

Do you "milk" your time to make sure that you get your 80% for the week? I couldn't, in good conscience, do that to the customer.

At one point, when my boss was complaining about me not making 80%, I looked him straight in the eye and said "Can I help it that I fix things *so well*, that they don't break again???"

I went back to my salaried job, when the company started telling me "If you don't have any more jobs for the day, we want you off the clock." I flat said "I didn't sign up with you to have my hours cut; I signed up as full-time." and I resigned.

Being salaried has it's plusses and minuses. But there has to be a clear understanding about the expectations. I will gladly work for "flex time", (although I think that flex time should be time-and-a-half, just like overtime... so if I work 44 hours one week, only get paid for 40, I should have 6 hours of flex time... 4 x 1.5)

That hasn't happened yet. <Shrug>

gbaughma, when you told the interviewer about your "salaried overtime" requirement, how many times were you shown the door? I know hiring execs that would laugh out loud at that one.

Then I don't want to work for those slave-drivers anyway.



Just my 2¢

"In order to start solving a problem, one must first identify its owner." --Me
--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[aarenot]

i am hourly, i do not want flex time myself, i want my ot. i would take flex time if i was salaried.

You do not always get what you pay for, but you never get what you do not pay for.

 

[philhege]

OOF-da. I didn't realize I was working for slave drivers

Phil Hegedusich
Senior Programmer/Analyst
IIMAK

http://www.iimak.com

-----------
I'll have the roast duck with the mango salsa.