Required To Take Photo For HR Database 4

[SgtJarrow]

I have been pushed by my management to go to my HR department and have my photo taken to add to our HR database. As of now, my supervisor cannot provide me WHY I must do this.

I already have my photo on my company's security badge. I already have my photo added to our internal Lync server so it shows in my email and Lync statuses.

HR has responded that:

We are working to have everyone’s picture uploaded onto their profile page; not only for security purposes but also to learn who everyone is by face, not just email. You photo will not be distributed to anyone. The only people who will be able to see your photo are your manager/director/VP and Human Resources. This picture will not be sent out to anyone else without your specific consent. It is required by all employees.

I object to having to do this more out of principle than anything else. I don't do any social media (Facebook, Linked In, etc).
I ONLY use the ones that my company has decided is to be used for internal discussions (internal Lync server, Sharepoint and ONE of our Yammer pages).

Does anyone has any experience with this type of request from their company and can you provide me any insight as to if I am barking up an empty tree or if I can really see the cat I am barking at?

Thank you.

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People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. (Calvin from Calvin And Hobbs)

Robert L. Johnson III
CCNA, CCDA, MCSA, CNA, Net+, A+, CHDP
C#.NET Programmer

 

[kwbMitel]

My only advice would be to fight the fights that are worth winning. I understand the principle and all, but it might cost you down the road.

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

 

[SgtJarrow]

Thank you. I am complying for the time being but still researching if I can legally object to this.

I just don't understand why my company spends all the time and resources we spend on "stupid" ideas. I know my company is not unique in this, but it is amazing how much wasted time I see at this company. Not to forget our other crazy policies and practices. I attribute it to the inexperience of our senior management as the company is only 8 years old.

I am already in talks with other employers and probably won't be at this employer but for a couple more months anyway. Three years of this type of initiative has worn me down. I think the time to move on has arrived.

I agree to fight the good fights only. I've raised my objections and am being overridden. That's the best I can do at this point.

=======================================
People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. (Calvin from Calvin And Hobbs)

Robert L. Johnson III
CCNA, CCDA, MCSA, CNA, Net+, A+, CHDP
C#.NET Programmer

 

[Andrzejek]

I already have my photo added to our internal Lync server so it shows in my email and Lync statuses.

Just curious how is this working for you?

At my company Management is pushing to display our pictures in the (internal?) e-mail. The same “to learn who everyone is by face” bs. There are a lot of unhappy people who don’t want their pictures in ‘cyber-space’.


Have fun.

---- Andy

A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops. On my desk, I have a work station.

 

[SgtJarrow]

Andy,

Can't give you an answer. I was not involved in the setup of the Lync server and know that about only half the company has photos loaded. I haven't heard any complaints myself but I am not the subject matter expert for the Lync server.

What I will comment on is the fact that because it is hosted inside our network, it was only a couple weeks after implementation they came to me to develop a SQL Server Reporting Services report by which management could "view" conversations between two or more employees. All they have to do is enter a from name and to name and the report will show ALL communications across the Lync server by those two, even in groups conversations. So BIG BROTHER is in my house every day now.

AND the company has never put out a notice that this system is monitored. We do have a notice in our employee handbook about all communications being monitored, but not the Lync server explicitly. Oh well...not my call, I just get tasks for development work, raise an abjection if I see something odd, and then drive on. I've only ever been able to prevent one or two tasks by objecting over the past three years.

I am still researching what legal avenues I might have. If I find something, I will definitely post back here.

=======================================
People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. (Calvin from Calvin And Hobbs)

Robert L. Johnson III
CCNA, CCDA, MCSA, CNA, Net+, A+, CHDP
C#.NET Programmer

 

[SamBones]

Just because they can, doesn't mean they should. The same problem is happening with our governments these days.

If you worked on the report to view conversations, I'm sure if you mentioned it to enough people it would become common knowledge very quickly. That knowledge might help someone keep from burning themselves with a poorly placed comment. I suspect that happens where I work so I occasionally drop something like this into a conversation with a peer, "Boss, what do you think?", or "Boss, email me if you think this plan is viable".

Personally, I like having pictures in chat and email. We have enough turnover that it's hard to know that the person you just passed in the hallway is the person you've been working with on a project day by day for the last month or two. I've actually had managers in other states that I had never met face to face and still to this day have no clue what they looked like.

 

[SgtJarrow]

Oh, you opened a whole different can of worms and I'll just throw it over the side of the boat instead of getting into it. But trust me, I concur completely with your assessment of our governments.

And once I was requested to build that report, believe me, I did the [wrong] thing by informing a few people directly that the company now has the ability to track this information. Why? Because I am 100% guilty of "venting" some of my frustrations with management (and some employees) with fellow employees and even my manager via Lync. We can hold a "closed" conversation so others can't hear the discussion and that is a good thing so as not to sow dissent. But I can no longer vent via this medium.

This has impacted my workflow because now when I need to vent (its usually not just me, but my team is frustrated for some reason), instead of us having a "vent" session on Lync while we continue our tasks, we take a 15+ minute break (all salary so the time is not critical) and we go outside to one a few places we can have some private time to discuss.

I will point out that this happens often enough lately because we are currently moving from a traditional waterfall development pattern to full Agile. But we are only on our third truly-defined Sprint and management HAS NOT been trained in Agile development. That doesn't happen until next month. So we have a lot of issues with them because they don't understand the process yet.

And I will also concur that I like the photos in the email and Lync for the same reasons...we have a lot of remote workers and I like placing a face to who I am talking to, even if it is only by email.

Followup to my particular situation: When I went down to HR and complied with the photo requirement, I was pulled into the HR Manager's office for a chat. I was told I was being disrespectful by not just adhering to the policy...voicing my concerns was "not appropriate". I informed the manager that was not the case. I was merely objecting to something based on my beliefs and cannot be faulted for that. (Thank your service members - I am veteran as well - for the right to be able to have personal beliefs and not be faulted for them). When I stated that I complied because I can find no legal standing to refuse but that I would continue to research if there is anything I can do, I was told that in no certain terms would I be able to change their process, no matter what legal grounds I find. And I replied that I did not want to change the process, just have myself exempted from it. We agreed to disagreed and I left her office, dropping it at that point.

I will continue my search as time permits. But I honestly believe I am not going to find the answer I need. But if we never speak up and continue to be the complacent sheep most of us tend to be on a daily basis (I'm guilty of this as well), we can never affect change. It has to start somewhere and I cannot trust my superiors (work, government, etc) to make the changes I need/want on my own anymore. Fight the good fights where I can, voice my concerns but comply where I can't fight and keep trying to make my life better for myself and my family - and maybe better for all those around me at the same time.

=======================================
People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. (Calvin from Calvin And Hobbs)

Robert L. Johnson III
CCNA, CCDA, MCSA, CNA, Net+, A+, CHDP
C#.NET Programmer

 

[goombawaho]

Read this very "tongue-in-cheeky"
It's probably the U.S. government that wants to import your picture into their facial recognition software.
Link
By enlisting the help of employers across the U.S., they will be able to gather many good pictures via "stealth mode" and populate their database. Now with your picture scanned in and license plate scanners running all about and Stingrays sniffing the cell phone signals, there will be a complete map of where you go, how often you are there, who you talk to and what you look like. It is not exaggerating to say that if several government agencies (local/state/national) wanted to pool their data, they would have a very good profile of exactly where you go and who you talk to.
Link
Link

1984 is now reality and nobody is even complaining.
Now.... to worry about it or not?

Now, your particular company / H.R. dept. appears to be real a bunch of bungholes telling you that questioning the policy is "not appropriate". I would just about have flown off the handle at that point and given them a lecture about privacy, etc., etc. and likely losing my job shortly thereafter. So, your privacy concerns may be valid and not illegal but to keep your job - resistance is likely verboten.

I was told that in no certain terms would I be able to change their process, no matter what legal grounds I find.

This is also what you get in government when you elect left-leaning leaders. You get ramrodded. They know best, not you. They pat your on the head and inform you of the policy and you are compelled to comply.


"Living tomorrow is everyone's sorrow.
Modern man's daydreams have turned into nightmares.

 

[SamBones]

Oh, you opened a whole different can of worms and I'll just throw it over the side of the boat instead of getting into it. But trust me, I concur completely with your frustration with Agile development.

There's a toll road near me that I take to save a bunch of freeway time. They've got cameras set up to take pics at several locations. It's mostly to get the license plate for billing, but they are positioned in a way that they also get the faces of the occupants. I always make sure I put the sun visor down and sit tall so they most they get is what T-shirt I'm wearing that day.

I've also thought about getting some nose glasses and letting Groucho Marx get the blame for things I do. It would be fun if everyone started wearing nose glasses. It's the facial recognition version of the NOPLATE story.

In dealing with HR types, I've found that certain key words seem to have big effect. I was once being pressured to join some internal group by an HR team. After battling with them for a while, I just happened to start an email with this phrase, "Please stop harassing me!" They went from full court press to apologetic backpedalling. They even made changes to the project they were running. I was impressed. It was like I had found a magic word or something (Wave wand ... "Expecto-patronum!")

So the word "Harass" was a loaded HR word. It had legal implications. So I'm thinking your HR people were kind of bluffing about not caring about any legal issues you could find. That should be part of their mission, avoiding legal exposure with regards to the employee base.

 

[SamBones]

You could also maybe object to the HR photos on the grounds that you are in the witness protection program and any photographs of this nature might endanger your current identity. See how that flies.

 

[SgtJarrow]

You could also maybe object to the HR photos on the grounds that you are in the witness protection program and any photographs of this nature might endanger your current identity.

That's rich. I got a good laugh at that one and almost had to clean coffee off my keyboard.

goomba, tongue and cheek comment aside, I actually wondered this. My company leases their building from a property management company and there have been several instances recently of some serious vandalism in the building. They installed more cameras in the halls and at the doors and I believe it is all part of some sort of facial recognition software they are setting up but not telling us about. Add to the fact that HR told me the photo they already have for my security badge "was too small to import into the HR database". That sets off red flags in my head.

I have a meeting with the director of IT this morning. He already apologized to me on Friday for how HR has handled this. He stated that when they contacted him about my issues he was shocked at how they handled it and he told them so. My Director stated to me that if an employee has a concern about a policy, a discussion should be opened up. If the company cannot come to an agreement, then at least there would be open discussion about it. AND I should not have been treated like I was being combative or anything. AND that when I mentioned contacting an attorney to get more information, they should have offered to be available to talk to my attorney, not tell me I can't speak to one.

So all in all, it is a bad situation. My direct supervisor and Director have my back as far as my concerns but can't override the company policy. We begin our annual reviews on April 1 and I have already explained to my management team that I am going to be using the review as a decision point in my career here at this company. I have been considering moving on for the past year anyway (of which my supervisor and Director are aware) and this might just be the last straw I need.

Thanks to everyone else for their comments and input. It is good to know I am not the only crazy one out there concerned about my internet present, big brother, and any other unauthorized persons knowing/having more details about me the I care to divulge.

=======================================
People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. (Calvin from Calvin And Hobbs)

Robert L. Johnson III
CCNA, CCDA, MCSA, CNA, Net+, A+, CHDP
C#.NET Programmer

 

[goombawaho]

HR is a bunch of people dedicated to one thing - protecting the company. They don't care about you or anyone or benefits, etc. Their sole mission is protect the company from lawsuits, poor employees, sexual harassment, etc. I had a manager who was tight with the chief HR person and she explained to him the whole approach of the department. When you disagree with their policy, red flags come out all over and a note goes into your file (permanent record??).

So, while your direct management may support you, HR now has you on their radar. Not that they want to get rid of you just yet, but now they have a line in your file "something something non-cooperative". If you have any interest in leaving the company, it would be a great time to do so just as a poke in the nose to the HR department, but I wouldn't bolt and change your life just to do that. If the two goals come together, then great.

I would also resign yourself to the idea that picture-taking will become much more common in the future. As I recall, in my last real job, they started doing this in late 2005 or early 2006 where I worked. But it was only going onto a board and not into a database.

"Living tomorrow is everyone's sorrow.
Modern man's daydreams have turned into nightmares.

 

[Gunnaro]

Next time you're forced into a photo session, put on a necklace of near-infrared LEDs. Ruins the picture completely.
(And if you have enough hair to cover a "LED-tiara" => Purple aura )

Kind regards

Gunnar
______________________________________
Mille viae ducunt homines per saecula Romam

 

[SkipVought]

Reschedule. And...

 

[Gunnaro]

(...and for the members of the tinfoil-hat-club: IR LEDs will give most facial recognition devices a really hard time).

Kind regards

Gunnar
______________________________________
Mille viae ducunt homines per saecula Romam

 

[Mountainbear]

If you do allow them to take your photo you could bring a "legal" document for them to sign indicating that they will only use the photo for the purpose that they have indicated AND all photos will be returned when your employment ends. I would have a lot of fun drafting this with lots of clauses and penalties and fees and threat of litigation holding them liable for all damage to your reputation or safety if they use your image in an improper way. the thicker the better, at least 10 pages.
That's what I would do but I just like to stir the pot.