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Report Writing Services vs Crystal Reports 1
- Thread starter JohnOB
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1
- #2
I have worked with Crystal Reports for years and consider myself pretty knowledgeable at to what can be done with it. I recently took a Reporting Services class from NetDesk, one of the MS Training partners and found myself as one of a dozen in a class where we were ALL trying to get away from Crystal Reports for various reasons. In my case, it's DLL Hell! In fairness, I must admit that we were all larger corporate or government shops with many developers in most of them.
Several years ago I attended a Crystal Reports Boot Camp hosted by George Peck's Ablaze group along with several other highly respected Crystal consultants. One of those consultants told me I should 'check out' Reporting Services after I moved on to MS SQL.
Having worked with Reporting Services for several months now, (maybe six), I can pleasing report that there hasn't been anything yet that I could do with Crystal that I can't do with RS. I haven't completed moving everything over yet but I've done enough variety to give me confidence that this is the way to go for our shop. On the contrary, there have been a several reports that were quite easily created in RS that I would not have wanted to create in Crystal. The big difference is the separation of the data sources out to their own layer so they can be dealt with separate from the report itself.
One other concern I have with Crystal is the apparent lack of commitment Business Objects has shown to the product. There have been NO upgrades or significant releases to the product that were not 'in the development pipeline' since they acquired the product nearly five years ago. They dropped all support of CDUGNA the Crystal Users group. I've heard that Business Object considers you a 'small' shop if you are not listed on the fortune 500.
On the other hand, I will be the first to admit that there appears to be a whole lot more documentation, books, articles, and other support available for the Crystal Reports product. I find many of the examples in the Microsoft docs to be pretty trivial and have difficulty finding the answers I need to technical problems. (That's what's great about Tek-Tips... we provide our own support.)
That's about it from my perspective.
Paul
Several years ago I attended a Crystal Reports Boot Camp hosted by George Peck's Ablaze group along with several other highly respected Crystal consultants. One of those consultants told me I should 'check out' Reporting Services after I moved on to MS SQL.
Having worked with Reporting Services for several months now, (maybe six), I can pleasing report that there hasn't been anything yet that I could do with Crystal that I can't do with RS. I haven't completed moving everything over yet but I've done enough variety to give me confidence that this is the way to go for our shop. On the contrary, there have been a several reports that were quite easily created in RS that I would not have wanted to create in Crystal. The big difference is the separation of the data sources out to their own layer so they can be dealt with separate from the report itself.
One other concern I have with Crystal is the apparent lack of commitment Business Objects has shown to the product. There have been NO upgrades or significant releases to the product that were not 'in the development pipeline' since they acquired the product nearly five years ago. They dropped all support of CDUGNA the Crystal Users group. I've heard that Business Object considers you a 'small' shop if you are not listed on the fortune 500.
On the other hand, I will be the first to admit that there appears to be a whole lot more documentation, books, articles, and other support available for the Crystal Reports product. I find many of the examples in the Microsoft docs to be pretty trivial and have difficulty finding the answers I need to technical problems. (That's what's great about Tek-Tips... we provide our own support.)
That's about it from my perspective.
Paul
To add to what Paul said, look at the pricing for Crystal Enterprise. This is all available in SQL reporting Services, which is included for free in SQL 2005 Server.
I am about the last person to want Microsoft to take up more of my life than they already do. Having said that, they are absolutely poised to bash Business Objects over the head, and it is not Microsoft being a bully - it is Business Objects being arrogant and ignorant!
Software Sales, Training, Implementation and Support for Macola, eSynergy, and Crystal Reports
"What version of URGENT!!! are you using?
I am about the last person to want Microsoft to take up more of my life than they already do. Having said that, they are absolutely poised to bash Business Objects over the head, and it is not Microsoft being a bully - it is Business Objects being arrogant and ignorant!
Software Sales, Training, Implementation and Support for Macola, eSynergy, and Crystal Reports
"What version of URGENT!!! are you using?
- Thread starter
- #4
Thanks for your replies, one question you may be able to help with.
I have a price for MS SQL Server 2005, though I am looking for confirmation to see what else I need to buy, I believe this comes with a tool for creating ad hoc reports, but I imagine I myself will need a full product for designing reports. I believe what I need is report designer, I believe this comes with Visual Studio 2005, however I also read "If you do not have Visual Studio 2005 installed, SQL Server Setup installs the shell so that you can run Report Designer."
So do I need visual studio 2005? If not, if I am to run the sql server setup on my machine I assume I would need to buy a seperate licence for this? If I did this do I still need to find Report Designer and install it or does it come as part of the shell that is installed when I run the SQL Server setup on my PC?
Thanks
"Stupid isn't not knowing the answer, it's not asking the question
I have a price for MS SQL Server 2005, though I am looking for confirmation to see what else I need to buy, I believe this comes with a tool for creating ad hoc reports, but I imagine I myself will need a full product for designing reports. I believe what I need is report designer, I believe this comes with Visual Studio 2005, however I also read "If you do not have Visual Studio 2005 installed, SQL Server Setup installs the shell so that you can run Report Designer."
So do I need visual studio 2005? If not, if I am to run the sql server setup on my machine I assume I would need to buy a seperate licence for this? If I did this do I still need to find Report Designer and install it or does it come as part of the shell that is installed when I run the SQL Server setup on my PC?
Thanks
"Stupid isn't not knowing the answer, it's not asking the question
- Thread starter
- #5
I also meant to add....
Publishing reports to a central point to enable to run the reports themselves is something we really want to be able to do, I will probably install the required software and test report creation initially, but in order to publish reports is a new server required, or can part of the existing server be setup as the 'Report Server' and when they are published do people access the reports via a URL, or do they need any other sort of client software? Can you control who has access to what reports?
Thanks again!
"Stupid isn't not knowing the answer, it's not asking the question
Publishing reports to a central point to enable to run the reports themselves is something we really want to be able to do, I will probably install the required software and test report creation initially, but in order to publish reports is a new server required, or can part of the existing server be setup as the 'Report Server' and when they are published do people access the reports via a URL, or do they need any other sort of client software? Can you control who has access to what reports?
Thanks again!
"Stupid isn't not knowing the answer, it's not asking the question
JohnOB - not sure about your first post but I can answer a couple of questions from your 2nd
The Report Server is where reports are deployed to. All that is required is a SQL Server. Don;t think there is any issue with other apps / databases being stored on that server
Users access reports either via a web based Report Manager or via a url. No other application is required - reports render by default in a web browser but can be rendered into any of xml / text file / pdf / excel also. Security is handled in the Report Manager interface and works on folder or item level. If you get properly into it, you can also query active directory and use that to show / hide content within a single report..
Rgds, Geoff
We could learn a lot from crayons. Some are sharp, some are pretty and some are dull. Some have weird names and all are different colours but they all live in the same box.
Please read FAQ222-2244 before you ask a question
The Report Server is where reports are deployed to. All that is required is a SQL Server. Don;t think there is any issue with other apps / databases being stored on that server
Users access reports either via a web based Report Manager or via a url. No other application is required - reports render by default in a web browser but can be rendered into any of xml / text file / pdf / excel also. Security is handled in the Report Manager interface and works on folder or item level. If you get properly into it, you can also query active directory and use that to show / hide content within a single report..
Rgds, Geoff
We could learn a lot from crayons. Some are sharp, some are pretty and some are dull. Some have weird names and all are different colours but they all live in the same box.
Please read FAQ222-2244 before you ask a question
John,
You DO NOT need VS2005 to design and deploy reports for Reporting Services. As you state, when you install SQL2005, there is an option (maybe not an "option" as I don't remember if you can unselect it but you get the idea) that will install a VS2005-ish application called SQL Server Business Intelligence Development Studio. I have VS2005/vS2008 myself, so I don't use the BID, but it really is just a scaled back version of VS2005 that has the SQL Reporting Services components only.
As a side note, IF you have VS2005 installed you can use it directly to develop the same reports as in the BID application. But the nice thing is that as a developer of primarily applications myself, I can create multiple projects in one solution...having a completely separate solution for my reports that might be viewable in my apps directly using the ReportViewer control.
Finally, one more side note is that Reporting Service reports allows you to attach custom DLLs and objects to the reports that might have custom business logic or rules in them. This is another reason you might need VS2005; if you need this functionality.
Geoff answered the rendering question well!
Hope that helps a bit
=======================================
People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. (Calvin from Calvin And Hobbs)
Robert L. Johnson III
CCNA, CCDA, MCSA, CNA, Net+, A+, CHDP
VB/Access Programmer
You DO NOT need VS2005 to design and deploy reports for Reporting Services. As you state, when you install SQL2005, there is an option (maybe not an "option" as I don't remember if you can unselect it but you get the idea) that will install a VS2005-ish application called SQL Server Business Intelligence Development Studio. I have VS2005/vS2008 myself, so I don't use the BID, but it really is just a scaled back version of VS2005 that has the SQL Reporting Services components only.
As a side note, IF you have VS2005 installed you can use it directly to develop the same reports as in the BID application. But the nice thing is that as a developer of primarily applications myself, I can create multiple projects in one solution...having a completely separate solution for my reports that might be viewable in my apps directly using the ReportViewer control.
Finally, one more side note is that Reporting Service reports allows you to attach custom DLLs and objects to the reports that might have custom business logic or rules in them. This is another reason you might need VS2005; if you need this functionality.
Geoff answered the rendering question well!
Hope that helps a bit
=======================================
People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. (Calvin from Calvin And Hobbs)
Robert L. Johnson III
CCNA, CCDA, MCSA, CNA, Net+, A+, CHDP
VB/Access Programmer
- Thread starter
- #8
Although it is a bit dated and I know many of the shortfalls of MS Reporting Services have been improved since the following comparison was developed it is a great document for comparing the two products.
I do want to say that I think the statement that Microsoft is "absolutely poised to bash Business Objects over the head, and it is not Microsoft being a bully - it is Business Objects being arrogant and ignorant!" is right on. Instead of trying to be more competative Business Objects just raised all of thei prices 10%. I swear they believe that those Forutune 500 companies are an adequate install base to keep them in business.
That being said I think the cost differences surrounding the two products are frequently miss-represented. Yes a Crystal Enterprise installation may cost more than a MS Reporting Services installation but it really depends on the size of your organization and how things are licensed. If your organization is small and runs MS SQL server "free" is sort of true but if you are of any size at all you will need to split your MS Reporting services off of your DB server. This requires another MS SQL license. One for each SQL server you put up to run reports. So figure for additional HW,and OS and MS SQL licenses as you grow.
I do want to say that I think the statement that Microsoft is "absolutely poised to bash Business Objects over the head, and it is not Microsoft being a bully - it is Business Objects being arrogant and ignorant!" is right on. Instead of trying to be more competative Business Objects just raised all of thei prices 10%. I swear they believe that those Forutune 500 companies are an adequate install base to keep them in business.
That being said I think the cost differences surrounding the two products are frequently miss-represented. Yes a Crystal Enterprise installation may cost more than a MS Reporting Services installation but it really depends on the size of your organization and how things are licensed. If your organization is small and runs MS SQL server "free" is sort of true but if you are of any size at all you will need to split your MS Reporting services off of your DB server. This requires another MS SQL license. One for each SQL server you put up to run reports. So figure for additional HW,and OS and MS SQL licenses as you grow.
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