Recrystallize for Web distribution 1

[sue1127]

Hi all,

I need to distribute Crystal reports on the web, and security is essential. For example, a department head should be able to see the department expense report, but should be able to look only at his/her budget lines. Money is very limited, and we will probably not be able to afford Crystal Enterprise.

I have recently heard of a 3rd party package called Recrystallize Pro which can be used to distribute Crystal reports securely on the web. Does anyone have any experience with or knowledge of this product, or of any other method to distribute reports without "breaking the bank"?

Thanks very much,

Sue

 

[dgillz]

I have demoed Report2Web out of Redwood, CA. They can put ANY report on the web, including crystal, which was one of the demos examples.

They totally dodged my questions about crystal royalties so I suspect it would still be subject to them under certain circumstances.

In terms of break the bank, this was not cheap either, entry level was at around $10k. Software Support for Sage Mas90, Macola, Crystal Reports, Goldmine and MS Office

 

[Nuffsaid]

Hi Guys,

From what I've been exposed to, as soon as you put "Distribute & Crystal" in the same sentence you can leave out the word "Cheap".

There have been many posts made here about licenseing, check them out.

We "Paid The Price" for Enterprise..."Worth It"....

Nuffsaid.

 

[kenhamady]

Enterprise is 'free' for the first 5 concurrent users. After that point the per user is pretty steep.

If can stay with v7 of CR, you can use the web component server that comes with CR or any of the 3rd parties without concern for fees. There are no broadcase or concurrent license issues with v7. However, the v7 WCS is not as robust as the v8x WCS or CE. I have heard that you might find degradation somewhere between 5 and 15 concurrent users, depending on the environment.

If you use any 3rd party method with v8x reports, you have to be aware of the Crystal Broadcast License. This is discussed extensively here in another thread, and also on my web site. Ken Hamady, On-site Custom Crystal Reports Training & Consulting
Public classes and individual training.
Guide to using Crystal in VB

http://www.kenhamady.com/

tek@kenhamady.com

 

[Nuffsaid]

Hi,

Ken, 5 free only comes with the standard version of Enterprise, which inturn was given away with a purchase of CR V8.5 Also I have heard that the 5 do expire at some point in time, not sure if that is true or not. If you're going to use Enterprise go professional. It has many features not available in the standard version.

There are sooo many ways to get the information "out there".
Should we push or pull. What are the advantages, and, what are the costs?? Do I want to spend time building a front end that will be bundled with a portion of something else? Or, can I use a product out of the box, right now, and modify it at my convienience.

At this point I can only tell you what's up here.

We use both Seagate Info and Enterprise. We received Info as an "Add On" to our newly purchased system a couple of years back. The "Add On" cost was 2,500 for 5 named users (4users + 1 developer). Additional licenses are 2,500 for 5 additional. (4 and 1). We consider a lifetime cost of 500 per user reasonable. As long as we maintain our service contract for our overall system, we are entitled to all upgrades. Alas Info 7.5, the last of a breed....

As Crystal annouces Enterprise, there goes our Info Upgrades....

So we check out Enterprise....OUCH... HOW MUCH??????

OK, so a little more thought required here. We can't simply move everyone to Enterprise, we can't afford it. But then why should we. Info runs fine, does it's job, keeps MOST people happy, and the price is right. We can still by more.
We know it's on it's way out, but it can serve it's purpose for a few more years.

In that case, let's just put the executives on Enterprise.
Cost 30,000 for 25 named licenses, professional version.
Enterprise runs on 3 dedicated servers and the Execs love it.

So, a natural migration, Info to Enterprise with few headaches. No VB front ends, no third party intervention (like I need to learn another software), just "Plug and Play", right out of the box. (OK stop laughing), and I can modify it when and IF I want to. NO licenseing issues!!!!

Info 500 a pop, Enterprise, a little over a 1,000 a pop.
LIFETIME........ "Worth It"....

Anyways......

Nuffsaid.

 

[rhinok]

My client purchased a 2-year Seagate Info Upgrade Advantage for ~$16K almost 2 years ago. Crystal Decisions is now sending out a copy of CE, 195 Named User licenses and 45 copies of Crystal Reports 8.5 Pro (to cover the Seagate Info Designer Add-ons, which no longer exist in CE) for no additional fee. My client will still need to purchase maintenance contracts, of course.

The CE Sales Reps tried to sell my client on 'converting' their existing Named User Licenses. The conversion would have left my client with ~5 CALs plus a commitment to purchase 10 additional CALs for ~45K. Since my client has more than 15 concurrent users, this was still unacceptable and extremely cost-prohibitive. Also, the client only uses about 100 of the existing 195 Named licenses, so they still have room for growth without the need to purchase CALs.

My client had to push for the upgrade to CE for no cost but they got it by holding firm. No documentation accompanied the original Upgrade Advantage License. The only documentation I've found on the web is a snippet from the Crystal Decisions Volume Licensing (Dimensions) program (of which my client is a member):

http://www.crystaldecisions.com/contact/purchase/downloads/program_overview.pdf

"Upgrade Advantage –
Worry-Free License Maintenance at a Great Price
Crystal Decision’s Upgrade Advantage (UA) software license subscription program automatically
provides access to all major and minor upgrades and maintenance releases of Crystal Decisions products.
It’s an easy and hassle-free way to stay current on latest releases of Crystal Decision’s products while
minimizing your total cost of ownership. New software and certificates will be sent directly to you with
valid Upgrade Advantage."

The phrase 'all major and mior upgrades and maintenance releases of Crystal Decisions products' is important because it doesn't specify any one product. My clients argument was 'Seagate Info is an enterprise reporting system. Since Crystal Decisions has phased out Seagate Info in favor of Crystal Enterprise, which is the latest Enterprise Reporting System, we are entitled to the upgrade via our Upgrade Advantage License'.

Hope this helps.

 

[sue1127]

Thanks to all who have responded with information and suggestions. I have a question about the Web Component Server for CR 8.0. Is it possible when using the WCS to set up the necessary security--that is, one report, but dept heads can view only their own budget lines? Also, would I be able to allow the department heads to refresh those budget lines that they can view?

Thanks,

Sue

 

[dr761]

I use recrystallize. It doesn't distribute the reports, it just generates the html and ASP to run the reports with the web automation server. I'm using CR 8 developer which came with a license for 5 concurrent users on web server automation. The combination works very well! As for security, neither CR or Recrystallize are going to do that for you. You'd have to add record selection criteria either during the Recrystallize process or to the ASP coded generated by Recrystallize so the user only saw the records they are supposed to see.

 

[kenhamady]

Nuffsaid,

What I was told was that the 5 do not 'expire', they just aren't eligible for upgrade. Ken Hamady, On-site Custom Crystal Reports Training & Consulting
Public classes and individual training.
Guide to using Crystal in VB

http://www.kenhamady.com/

tek@kenhamady.com

 

[sue1127]

Is it necessary to have CR 8 developer in order to use the web automation server? I'm still not exactly clear on the distinction between the web component server(which as I understand it comes with CR 8 Professional) and the web automation server

Thanks.

 

[kenhamady]

I was under the impression that starting with V8, all types of integration were taken out of professional and put into developer. It is confusing because with CR v7 there was only professional. Ken Hamady, On-site Custom Crystal Reports Training & Consulting
Public classes and individual training.
Guide to using Crystal in VB

http://www.kenhamady.com/

tek@kenhamady.com

 

[mthakershi]

Sounds like there should be a Crystal Purchase and Distribution department in my company. This is too compex to understand. Does this FSF guys need any reports or not, if yes then some of them should develop open source version for M'soft platforms!!!

Have Fun,
Malay

 

[kenhamady]

It is confusing, but my newsletter this month has a reasonable summary of the definitions, license fees and alternatives. You can read it at:

http://www.kenhamady.com/news0202.html

Ken Hamady, On-site Custom Crystal Reports Training & Consulting
Public classes and individual training.
Guide to using Crystal in VB

http://www.kenhamady.com/

tek@kenhamady.com

 

[HowardHammerman]

OK Everyone....

Yes Ken it is confusing.
No, the five-user license for Crystal Enterprise Standard that comes with Version 8.5 of Crystal does not expire.
Yes, it can be upgraded to Professional.
I know of no 'off the shelf' product that will provide the security feature that Sue was looking for except Crystal Enterprise Professional.
Yes, it is expensive. Check into the 'processor' license.
You get unlimited users for $45,000 (plus 25% for support and maintenance).

Or you can write your own security algorithems in Java or ASP.

We are currently investigating alternative report writers that sell for $5,000 to $15,000 for unlimited web deployment. Check our web site for the latest reviews.

Crystal has basically creating a sales opportunity for anyone able to deliver a competive application at a reasonable price.

Howard Hammerman,

Crystal Reports training, consulting, books, training material, software, and support. Scheduled training in 8 cities.
howard@hammerman.com

http://www.hammerman.com

800-783-2269

 

[sue1127]

Howard,

I'm not sure what the 'processor' license is for? Is that just with Enterprise, or whenever you use Crystal Reports on the web? Is that $45,000 in place of the $10K figure that I've seen if more than a certain number of people(40?) will be viewing Crystal on the web?

If we write our own security algorithems in ASP, would we tie the security to our Sybase database? And since we would not be using Enterprise, would the above license fees still be in place?

Thanks very much.

Sue

 

[kenhamady]

The per processor is for running reports on the web.
The $10,000 is the CBL for distibuting report OUTPUT.

See the article mentioned above for more clarification. Ken Hamady, On-site Custom Crystal Reports Training & Consulting
Public classes and individual training.
Guide to using Crystal in VB

http://www.kenhamady.com/

tek@kenhamady.com

 

[HowardHammerman]

Sue,

The "processor" license will allow any number of users to run reports on your server. It will only use one processor even if your server has more than one. If you want to use a second processor in the same box, you can pay more money
(about $30,000) and they will unlock the code, etc. In addition to the license fee you are "strongly encourage" to pay an extra 25% for support and maintenace.

This is just for Crystal Enterprise.

If you write your own application but use the Crystal DLLs to web-enable your reports, this does not apply. In that case you will need to buy another license. I believe it is the "distribution" license with a cost of about $1250 per concurrent user.

There is a real problem in getting all this straight because C.D. refused to put any of these prices on their web site. So you need to call. When you call, you get a different story depending on which salesman or partner you talk to.

If you send me your telephone and email I will put you in touch with the one salesman that I trust. Tell him your story and he will give you the straight scoop. Howard Hammerman,

Crystal Reports training, consulting, books, training material, software, and support. Scheduled training in 8 cities.
howard@hammerman.com

http://www.hammerman.com

800-783-2269

 

[kenhamady]

My last newsletter has the answers I got on 2/1/2002 from the sales team at CD. If anyone gets different answers I would like to compare them. The rules do change periodically, but most of the confusion has come from misunderstanding the terminology used. For instance, I haven't heard of the 'distribution' license that Howard refers to. I will have to call on that and see if the pricing is different for concurrent users on a home grown app vs using CE.

http://www.kenhamady.com/news0202.html

But, since these are both 'server based' systems they follow the same rules. You can have up to 5 concurrent users out of the box. Additional concurrent users have to be purchased. If you have enough users you can get a "per processor" license for unlimited users.

The $10K per year BroadCast license is unrelated, since there is no application. The CBL is if your users aren't running the report, but are viewing the report output (like an exported file). They could be viewing the file on the web or could have received it via Email.
Ken Hamady, On-site Custom Crystal Reports Training & Consulting
Public classes and individual training.
Guide to using Crystal in VB

http://www.kenhamady.com/

tek@kenhamady.com

 

[Nuffsaid]

Hi All,

The "Processor License", unlimited access??... Howard, when you say "per processor" what exactly do you mean? Number of CPUs in a box?

I'm a little P..... ..., Cost us 30k for 25 named, and I can get unlimited for 45. Guess who's gonna get a phone call real soon...

This is the first I've heard about this license. How long has this been available?

Nuffsaid.

 

[kenhamady]

Please tell us what you find out. This number seems to have been a moving target. Another thread mentioned a quote of $60K, but this was a while ago. Ken Hamady, On-site Custom Crystal Reports Training & Consulting
Public classes and individual training.
Guide to using Crystal in VB

http://www.kenhamady.com/

tek@kenhamady.com