Random Issue at Startup

[nevets2001uk]

I've been ignoring this for months as it's an annoyance but not a show stopper. However I though it's about time I checked to see if anyone had a good idea for a solution.

I self-built my home PC after first ensuring all the parts were compatible. My problems begin when pressing the power button. Often (80% of the time) you can hear the fans begin spinning and after anywhere between 1 and 5 seconds they cut out. This is before any POST info appears on screen. I then have to press the power button again. This can happen between 0 and 4 times on each boot (completely random) and sometimes doesn't occur at all.

I have tried the original PSU that came with the case and it happens with that also so I don't think it's a Power Supply issue, but I really can't decide what's causing it. I did think about a short of some kind but as it's random it's hard to work out where it might be.

Does anyone have any ideas that I may have missed for things to check. Once it starts POST on screen it will always boot perfectly and will work for as long as I leave it on. It only happens from a cold boot and not a restart from Windows.

All ideas welcomed

Cheers,


Steve G (MCP)

 

[paparazi]

Sounds like a motherboard issue if you have already swapped out the PSU.
It might help to read the question and answers column that board manufacturers have as support on there website, it could be a common issue resolved with a bios flash.
Martin

We like members to GIVE and not just TAKE.
Participate and help others.

 

[G0AOZ]

Unlikely to be this with a very new mobo, but worth a quick visual check for bad capacitors. See here:-

http://www.badcaps.net

You didn't say what mobo you have, or the size (Watts) of the PSUs you've tried. It's just possible neither of them are really man enough for the job...

Do you get the same problems starting from cold if you have ALL drives completely disconnected (data and power cables), and all add-on cards removed from the board?

ROGER - G0AOZ.

 

[BadBigBen]

Cold Boot symptoms usually indicate a failing PSU... or underpowered one...

Please state system specs... including the PSU wattage and amperage on each rail...

Ben

"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."

 

[nevets2001uk]

Motherboard is Asus A8N-E SKT 939 NFORCE 4
PSU is Ebuyer 500w 12cm fan Silent PSU (Older but similar to this one

http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/126928/rb/0)

The other PSU tested was a 350W one that came with the case.

It's been a while but I'm sure I tried starting the system with minimal components connected and had the same issue. I will test this again though. The capacitors all look fine to me.


Steve G (MCP)

 

[BadBigBen]

Ok, have you done a BIOS update lately? is the BIOS up to date?

Something to try:

Clear CMOS, then enter BIOS setup and load SetupDefaults (usually F5), EXIT and SAVE (F10), let it reset, then power down and wait a few minutes or an hour, and then see if the 'cold boot' problem persists...

PS: This is a good board to overclock... but I would not overclock a PC, until I have a.) a stable running system, and b.) a stable/good PSU with extra ooommmmppphhh! (we at work use these

http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/119767/rb/0

or higher wattage...

Ben

"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."

 

[wahnula]

I have an Asus T-1 Barebones that does this, and I believe it's by design. At first boot of the day, all fans spin at their highest rate then back off once the thermals are determined. If I reboot immediately it does it again, but a reboot during mid-day has a short or non-existent whoosh.

When they "cut out" are they spinning at all, or just slower?

I would look in BIOS for "Cool 'n Quiet" or any other fan controls options. I am not familiar with the A8NE but the T-1 was released about the same time...worth a shot.

Second guess would be PSU...always the *&^$% PSU!!!

Tony

 

[nevets2001uk]

Thanks Tony but this is certainly not a design feature! I'm familar with systems that initially start the fans at full power then drop them to a suitable operating speed to reduce noise.

On my system it shuts off completely. Like a loss of power. It's also random so may take 1,2 3 or even 4 presses of the power button before I get it to fully boot.

Ben - I'll try clearing the CMOS later and see if it get's me anywhere. The BIOS is at the latest version.

Cheers,
Steve


Steve G (MCP)

 

[BadBigBen]

At work we have mainboards that when they loose power, will upon pushing the powerbutton, boot up then cut back down as if they turn off, then about a sec later will fully boot up...

I tell you, the first time this happened to me, I was cursing under my breath and thought the mainboard was shot...

so besides CLR CMOS, I would look into that, ie. just push the power button and observe the PC...

Ben

"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."

 

[nevets2001uk]

After a long delay I back on this issue. Work has been too busy for me to care about the home system too much!

The issue continues as before. I have cleared the CMOS settings and the first boot afterwards was better. Second try from cold took three attempts, so not fixed.

I have also since installed Flight Simulator X and while playing it, the PC sometimes will totally die. Power goes completely and I have to start it up again. It's not a heat issue as temps seem OK.

I'm starting to lean towards this being a power supply issue. Although I guess it could also be Motherboard.

I'm thinking I'll have to replace one or the other and I'm leaning towards PSU. Does this sound reasonable? I can't really afford to spend out on this if I don't need to.

If PSU seems to be the way to go are there any recomendations for a AMD Socket 939 compatible PSU for this system that won't break the bank and is reasonably quiet. I have both SATA and IDE drives attached so need power attachements for both.

Steve G (MCSE / MCSA:Messaging)

 

[wahnula]

I'm starting to lean towards this being a power supply issue...I'm thinking I'll have to replace one or the other and I'm leaning towards PSU.

always the *&^$% PSU!!!

I would go to a local shop and explain your situation, then get a good PSU, at least 600 watt. How do you know a good PSU? Weight. The heavier, the better. Thermaltake, FPS, Seasonic, and even some no-name brands are all capable. Have an agreement that you will be VERY careful with packaging, but want to be able to return it if it does not solve the problem. This way you are not alone in the cold and have someone else (with lots of hardware) vested in the situation, while developing a relationship with a local company. Makes things easier in the future.

Check out this guide:

http://www.directron.com/psu.html

Frankly the PSU you bought seems fine, but the modular connectors provide another point of failure, but it could be something as simple as an intermittent I/O switch. That said, every time I encounter this problem it's always the PSU.

Tony

 

[BadBigBen]

Another thing to look at: Capacitors

are they flat and indented or are they bulging?

see the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

Ben

"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."

 

[nevets2001uk]

Thanks guys. I did take a look at the MB and capacitors look OK on initial inspection. Having had 10 Dell motherboards go at work recently I've become pretty adapt at spotting bulging and leaking ones!!

When I get a few quiet moments at home I'm going to remove all components and test the PC again. I did this ages ago but am starting to doubt myself now. At the same time I'll check the motherboard again for damage.

Assuming this issue still exists I'll take your suggestion Tony and try a local shop for a decent PSU. We don't have many around here that stock much beyond the basics though.

Steve G (MCSE / MCSA:Messaging)

 

[firewolfrl]

I have seen this issue before

First is to check outside the box.

Check the outlet your computer is plugged into. Does it have a good ground? does it have the correct polarity? is it high or low voltage? are you running a large load on it?
is there a fridge or washing machine on the same circuit? do you smoke by your computer?

I have fixed this issue a couple of times by taking the motherboard out of the box and removing all components,(including CPU) then I use denatured alcohol(buy at a hardware store) in a spray bottle and completely spray the board, make sure you spray well where any connection is to the board, I do this until the it looks clean then I clean the CPU, Ram, and all PCI/video type cards.
then I blow the heck out of it with a good air compressor

after that I examine the case and if the case is using metal standoffs I put electrical tape of them then poke a hole for the screws (this is to try to make sure the motherboard is not grounding to the case)


reassemble and do not plug(both IDE cable and power molex) in the hard drive or optical drives as of yet make sure it post OK without them in the system. if it posts OK and does it multiple times OK then plug in the optical drive and test again. you will do this with everything in the computer till the hard drive is last.

this issue can be caused by as a simple as a dirty connection to a failure in an optical or harddrive,
video cards can do this too.
a lose solder connection where the power connects to your motherboard will cause this


hope this helps

 

[nevets2001uk]

Had a chance to pick this up again yesturday. Totally took apart the PC and then rebuilt slowly. It booted much more readily until I added the last component which was the graphics card. Until then I only had one boot where it didn't start up first time. As soon as the graphics card was in I started getting problems again.

This pretty much confirmed to me that it was a PSU problem. Any other thoughts before I order a new one?

Cheers,
Steve



Steve G (MCSE / MCSA:Messaging)

 

[BadBigBen]

Nope, sounds like you did your homework there... just get one, as Tim Taylor would say, MORE POWER MORE POWER (at least 20A on the 12v line)...

Ben

"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."

 

[firewolfrl]

have you checked the graphics card in another computer?