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Radiant/Aloha Hardware 1
- Thread starter TobeThor
- Start date
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1
- #2
AkamaiAloha
MIS
A model number would be a little more helpful, as well as the nature of the problem--but ultimately, it depends on what's wrong. For example, if it's something simple like a hard drive failure and you feel confident that you can get obtain a drive, install it, reload the OS, and configure to run Aloha--then it's doable. Will your local electronics shop want a hand in this? Probably not.
Essentially, you have 3 things to consider:
1) Can you accurately diagnose the problem?
2) Can you get the parts?
3) Can you (or your local electronics place) install the the parts properly?
We see our share of sick IBM Sure POS 500s. If it's hard drive failure, we're all over--it's a standard IDE hard drive, easy to get to, etc. But if it is anything else--a touch screen failure, a display bulb buring out (happens a lot), we send it out. Between our cost for the bulbs, wading through the endless variations IBM has created producing these units (to make sure you have the CORRECT bulb), and repair hassle itself and the learning curve--it's best left to someone who does it regularly, IMO.
Radiant likes to throw around the term "off the shelf" hardware... seems like a see it in just about every publication they release. It's a little misleading. Technically, Radiants hardware IS open architecture. That is, it could run a variety of Operating systems. However, no all-in-one itself can be considered "off the shelf", and when the computer eventually breaks, it will not be the easiest thing in the world to repair on your own (whether you're doing it yourself or looking for someone besides your Radiant dealer to do it).
what's the model number on the unit?
Essentially, you have 3 things to consider:
1) Can you accurately diagnose the problem?
2) Can you get the parts?
3) Can you (or your local electronics place) install the the parts properly?
We see our share of sick IBM Sure POS 500s. If it's hard drive failure, we're all over--it's a standard IDE hard drive, easy to get to, etc. But if it is anything else--a touch screen failure, a display bulb buring out (happens a lot), we send it out. Between our cost for the bulbs, wading through the endless variations IBM has created producing these units (to make sure you have the CORRECT bulb), and repair hassle itself and the learning curve--it's best left to someone who does it regularly, IMO.
Radiant likes to throw around the term "off the shelf" hardware... seems like a see it in just about every publication they release. It's a little misleading. Technically, Radiants hardware IS open architecture. That is, it could run a variety of Operating systems. However, no all-in-one itself can be considered "off the shelf", and when the computer eventually breaks, it will not be the easiest thing in the world to repair on your own (whether you're doing it yourself or looking for someone besides your Radiant dealer to do it).
what's the model number on the unit?
To summarize what AkamaiAloha is saying about being proprietary.
Software wise no. You can load any operating system on them and use them as a regular computer. You can run Positouch, Restraunt Manager, or any open architecture software on them. We use them also for our retail solution Catapult. But, as with IBM, NCR etc., you will need their OPOS drivers for the cash drawer ports.
Hardware wise yes. But of course all computers are. You can easily change hard drives and memory all day, but if you need a new motherboard, you are going to get it from radiant just as you would for Dell, HP, etc.
Bo
Kentucky phone support-
"Mash the Kentrol key and hit scape."
Software wise no. You can load any operating system on them and use them as a regular computer. You can run Positouch, Restraunt Manager, or any open architecture software on them. We use them also for our retail solution Catapult. But, as with IBM, NCR etc., you will need their OPOS drivers for the cash drawer ports.
Hardware wise yes. But of course all computers are. You can easily change hard drives and memory all day, but if you need a new motherboard, you are going to get it from radiant just as you would for Dell, HP, etc.
Bo
Kentucky phone support-
"Mash the Kentrol key and hit scape."
- Thread starter
- #4
Thank you for your valuable responses.
The Radiant models I refer to are the P1500 & P1210 LCD Touchscreens. One way to judge the hardware (in my limited mind). If radiant truly distributes "great" hardware (little downtime, easy to service (easy disassemble & reassemble), industry standard parts (mobo, mem,HD,video etc.) POS Dealers that DO NOT sell Radiants various lines of software would be willing to distribute Radiants hardware. For instance.. will Radiant sell their LCD "all-in-one" Touchscreens to a Posi-Touch dealer?
If I see the Posi, Rest Mgr & NextPOS dealers selling Radiant hardware is it fair to assume they make a great product? Thanks again.
The Radiant models I refer to are the P1500 & P1210 LCD Touchscreens. One way to judge the hardware (in my limited mind). If radiant truly distributes "great" hardware (little downtime, easy to service (easy disassemble & reassemble), industry standard parts (mobo, mem,HD,video etc.) POS Dealers that DO NOT sell Radiants various lines of software would be willing to distribute Radiants hardware. For instance.. will Radiant sell their LCD "all-in-one" Touchscreens to a Posi-Touch dealer?
If I see the Posi, Rest Mgr & NextPOS dealers selling Radiant hardware is it fair to assume they make a great product? Thanks again.
AkamaiAloha
MIS
Your point is well taken, Tobe. The logic being that best will truly rise to the top, acceptable by all, once it's proven to be the best. However two quick comments:
It would be suicide for a POS company to readily admit that a 50% of a direct competitiors product (i.e. 50% hardware, 50% software) is balantly superior. Even for those POS companies that don't get into the business of selling hardware, they would not want to put money in Radiant's pocket. So, it's doubtful you will ever see a Radiant terminal running Restaurant Manager software, even if the Radiant stuff were far and away the best.
My second comment has more to do with I perceive to be a step backward as far the technology industry goes-- which is the practice of companies trying to sell propietary hardware. Obviously, Radiant is trying to differentiate it's product by having an certain type of terminal that no one else does. If all goes well for them, hopefully they'll end up the with a superior terminal, and the ULTIMATE goal--more money in their pocket.
The problem I have with it personally, is that I think it's more about finding additional places to make money in an increasingly competitive industry, rather than providing a superior product. Micros was the last dinosaur "holding out" trying to convince people that there product was superior because it was "designed specifically for that application". Does anyone actually believe this?
In summation, I don't have first hand knowledge if this is true or not, and even then it would just be my opinion. But the computer industry spent the last 20 years standarizing things, combined with the forces of capitalism-which now make it possible for me to buy a PC from Dell for $299 (ok, not a great one, but still a PC)-- and now, after all that, you're coming to me and asking to pay a lot of money for something that is now dirt cheap (comparatively speaking).
This is what Micros has been doing--I don't know first hand if this is how Radiant is trying to position their product. But from an observers perspective, it does seem like they're trying to jump onto the same boat.
It would be suicide for a POS company to readily admit that a 50% of a direct competitiors product (i.e. 50% hardware, 50% software) is balantly superior. Even for those POS companies that don't get into the business of selling hardware, they would not want to put money in Radiant's pocket. So, it's doubtful you will ever see a Radiant terminal running Restaurant Manager software, even if the Radiant stuff were far and away the best.
My second comment has more to do with I perceive to be a step backward as far the technology industry goes-- which is the practice of companies trying to sell propietary hardware. Obviously, Radiant is trying to differentiate it's product by having an certain type of terminal that no one else does. If all goes well for them, hopefully they'll end up the with a superior terminal, and the ULTIMATE goal--more money in their pocket.
The problem I have with it personally, is that I think it's more about finding additional places to make money in an increasingly competitive industry, rather than providing a superior product. Micros was the last dinosaur "holding out" trying to convince people that there product was superior because it was "designed specifically for that application". Does anyone actually believe this?
In summation, I don't have first hand knowledge if this is true or not, and even then it would just be my opinion. But the computer industry spent the last 20 years standarizing things, combined with the forces of capitalism-which now make it possible for me to buy a PC from Dell for $299 (ok, not a great one, but still a PC)-- and now, after all that, you're coming to me and asking to pay a lot of money for something that is now dirt cheap (comparatively speaking).
This is what Micros has been doing--I don't know first hand if this is how Radiant is trying to position their product. But from an observers perspective, it does seem like they're trying to jump onto the same boat.
Akamai,
While I respect your opinion, I think you have the wrong idea about radiant hardware. All of the components (except for the mother board and on board components) are items you can get at any computer store. The touch screen is microtouch, hard drive is IDE, MSR is either OPOS OR Keyboard wedge, LCD is one you can get off ebay, and the power supply is a regular ATX style. The reason that the motherboard is different is simple.....Try to put an ATX motherboard into an all-in-one terminal. That thing would be way to big. So they had to customize a motherboard to fit into a smaller case.
I just don't understand how you think they are straying from the standard. After dealing with an array of all in one terminals, I think radiant is being pretty fair about it all. Their warranty policy rocks (if your terminal breaks, they next day air a new one, no questions asked). IBM is rediculous in pricing for new parts. I had to order a new LCD and they wanted 900 bucks for it (my cost, not MSRP) so I went on ebay and found the same model from a laptop for 75 bucks. If it's just a bulb, you can get them in bulk for 8 bucks a piece.
Just because they are all in one terminals does not mean that all of the parts are propietary. All you have to do is google the part number and you can usually find an inexpensive replacement (except for mother boards).
Radiant, however, does not offer parts. Instead, their awesome warranty policy more than makes up for it. The warranty is good for a year, then you can buy an extension after that.
Adam
While I respect your opinion, I think you have the wrong idea about radiant hardware. All of the components (except for the mother board and on board components) are items you can get at any computer store. The touch screen is microtouch, hard drive is IDE, MSR is either OPOS OR Keyboard wedge, LCD is one you can get off ebay, and the power supply is a regular ATX style. The reason that the motherboard is different is simple.....Try to put an ATX motherboard into an all-in-one terminal. That thing would be way to big. So they had to customize a motherboard to fit into a smaller case.
I just don't understand how you think they are straying from the standard. After dealing with an array of all in one terminals, I think radiant is being pretty fair about it all. Their warranty policy rocks (if your terminal breaks, they next day air a new one, no questions asked). IBM is rediculous in pricing for new parts. I had to order a new LCD and they wanted 900 bucks for it (my cost, not MSRP) so I went on ebay and found the same model from a laptop for 75 bucks. If it's just a bulb, you can get them in bulk for 8 bucks a piece.
Just because they are all in one terminals does not mean that all of the parts are propietary. All you have to do is google the part number and you can usually find an inexpensive replacement (except for mother boards).
Radiant, however, does not offer parts. Instead, their awesome warranty policy more than makes up for it. The warranty is good for a year, then you can buy an extension after that.
Adam
AkamaiAloha
MIS
If everything you're saying about the Radiant hardware is true, Adam, then you're right, I quite possibly do have the wrong idea about Radiant hardware--to an extent. Bo seemed more inclined to think that the components were more proprietary in nature like I did, but it doesn't matter all that much... at least they are running on a platform that ultimately allows end users to decide what they want to use in terms of their hardware.
The part where I might disagree with you a little bit--Radiant is pushing the hardware because they make money off it. Aloha dealers are required to spend X amount of money with them... so the theory goes, if the company you work found something that worked way better than Radiants stuff, would they sell that, or continue to sell Radiants stuff? That probably depends on the dealer. But I have a feeling most of them would still continue further Radiants cause.
Also, don't misunderstand me. I am not against Radiant, their hardware, or the concept that businesses need to make money. I am cool with all that. But please indulge this quick story:
I worked for the local Aloha dealer in our area for about 2-3 years. Not long after I left, Ibertech forged a deal with Partnertech to promote the competitively price PT-9000 to try to give Aloha dealers an advantage by selling something that no one else could (i.e. proprietary). For those for unfamilar with it, this was nice looking all in one. Ok, no harm there--but they were absolute pieces of garbage. Easily fried by small electrical spikes, bulbs buring out, motherboard problems. So this last October at our local restaurant show, I ran into the old sales guy (who had since moved on), was laughing a joking about what pieces of junk they were. Yet he sold tons of them, one after another--installed in tons of places, despite the problems and the cost to customers (as well as the business he working for). Then why did he sell them? The margins were good and Ibertech wanted you to sell them-- so the customers got the raw end of the deal.
So I guess what I am saying Adam, is you can have preferred vendors or recommended hardware to promote your product. But when you reach a point where you are selling that isn't within your core compentency (i.e. manufacturing hardware) and putting pressure on your vendors to do so, what is the dealer supposed to do? It's them I feel bad for. But with bigger software companies who have a hot product, they can get away with.
Anyway, not gospel here---just my two cents. The radiant stuff could be the best thing going for all I know. But at some level, the end user is right to be a little leary about the dealers motivation or insistance that they use Radiant hardware.
Thanks for setting me straight about buying the hardware on ebay... didn't know that.
The part where I might disagree with you a little bit--Radiant is pushing the hardware because they make money off it. Aloha dealers are required to spend X amount of money with them... so the theory goes, if the company you work found something that worked way better than Radiants stuff, would they sell that, or continue to sell Radiants stuff? That probably depends on the dealer. But I have a feeling most of them would still continue further Radiants cause.
Also, don't misunderstand me. I am not against Radiant, their hardware, or the concept that businesses need to make money. I am cool with all that. But please indulge this quick story:
I worked for the local Aloha dealer in our area for about 2-3 years. Not long after I left, Ibertech forged a deal with Partnertech to promote the competitively price PT-9000 to try to give Aloha dealers an advantage by selling something that no one else could (i.e. proprietary). For those for unfamilar with it, this was nice looking all in one. Ok, no harm there--but they were absolute pieces of garbage. Easily fried by small electrical spikes, bulbs buring out, motherboard problems. So this last October at our local restaurant show, I ran into the old sales guy (who had since moved on), was laughing a joking about what pieces of junk they were. Yet he sold tons of them, one after another--installed in tons of places, despite the problems and the cost to customers (as well as the business he working for). Then why did he sell them? The margins were good and Ibertech wanted you to sell them-- so the customers got the raw end of the deal.
So I guess what I am saying Adam, is you can have preferred vendors or recommended hardware to promote your product. But when you reach a point where you are selling that isn't within your core compentency (i.e. manufacturing hardware) and putting pressure on your vendors to do so, what is the dealer supposed to do? It's them I feel bad for. But with bigger software companies who have a hot product, they can get away with.
Anyway, not gospel here---just my two cents. The radiant stuff could be the best thing going for all I know. But at some level, the end user is right to be a little leary about the dealers motivation or insistance that they use Radiant hardware.
Thanks for setting me straight about buying the hardware on ebay... didn't know that.
When you started the story about he PT-9000, I about busted my gut. I couldn't stop laughing! That's one terminal that still gives me nightmares!
You're right about meeting a certain quota. I think it's wrong as well, but I guess there's nothing we can do about it. I'm just glad that the terminal is a decent one. After dealing with IBM 5x1 bulbs and touch screens, PT-9000s many problems (too many to list), Liberty boxes (clients who won't upgrade), I could go on. Come to think of it, I can't think of one terminal I am absolutely happy with. Ugh, how depressing.
Have a great weekend!
Adam
You're right about meeting a certain quota. I think it's wrong as well, but I guess there's nothing we can do about it. I'm just glad that the terminal is a decent one. After dealing with IBM 5x1 bulbs and touch screens, PT-9000s many problems (too many to list), Liberty boxes (clients who won't upgrade), I could go on. Come to think of it, I can't think of one terminal I am absolutely happy with. Ugh, how depressing.
Have a great weekend!
Adam
Terminals that suck out of the box:
All in one Bellviews
All in one Tekvision Soloist
Partnertechs
Terminals that suck after two years of usage:
Pretty much all of them!! If this is the use-life of a POS terminal they should let us know upfront. At least Epson has the stats on their printers about how many lines of print it can print before it needs repair and\or replacing.
Bo
Kentucky phone support-
"Mash the Kentrol key and hit scape."
All in one Bellviews
All in one Tekvision Soloist
Partnertechs
Terminals that suck after two years of usage:
Pretty much all of them!! If this is the use-life of a POS terminal they should let us know upfront. At least Epson has the stats on their printers about how many lines of print it can print before it needs repair and\or replacing.
Bo
Kentucky phone support-
"Mash the Kentrol key and hit scape."
postech777
IS-IT--Management
Great info on this forum.. it's nice to know others are in the same boat. We should start a support group for the Partnertechs. I once replaced the socket 7 fan in 2 of them, this should have taken 10 min. for both. Instead it was 45 min and about 10 screws per unit. ARRRGH
My expierence with the 1210 hasn't been good. I believe we have installed 20 with at least 3 coming back with burned out bulbs, 5 blowing a power supply and that's all in the first year. Power protection is a must but i don't believe the all-in-ones properly dispates heat. Keep the terminal and the screen seperate and it'll save the customer a ton of money down the road.
My expierence with the 1210 hasn't been good. I believe we have installed 20 with at least 3 coming back with burned out bulbs, 5 blowing a power supply and that's all in the first year. Power protection is a must but i don't believe the all-in-ones properly dispates heat. Keep the terminal and the screen seperate and it'll save the customer a ton of money down the road.
AkamaiAloha
MIS
I agree with you Postech. The all in ones have come a long way in the last 5-7 years, no question about it. And there are certain applications where they just cannot be beat, like areas where the terminal should "look nice" and not have wires hanging out, like at a hostess stand or something. Or when limited space is a consideration. But in general, the right booksize PC and LCD touch monitor combo is tough to beat, especially in terms of durability and stability. And as always, power protection is a must--even on the booksizes! We believe in this so strongly, we've pretty much said "No power condition, no warranty." You don't have to buy it from us--it can be a big bulky APC or whatever... but it has to have something if you want us to honor the warranty. We've lost are butts too many times with places that have really bad power.
postech777
IS-IT--Management
That's a great policy, and it's not like a little windows message pops up on the screen and let's us all know what the problem is. Chasing down the red herrings of power problems are incredibly time consuming. We've recently started testing some software that comes with the smartpower UPS's that measures fluctuations in power. Not being an electrician it helps to have these programs to show clients "see I'm not just trying to sell you more equipment there really is something wrong here".
Strongly recommend a little program called speedfan for those that like to monitor heat and fans. I had a customer that kept getting overheating messages from this program, (it was operating at about 150 F, not really hot but past what is recommended) we already had two case fans in there but the room was hot, about 90 F. He installed an air conditioner. Probably added a year or two on the life of the backoffice.
The key really is to implement programs and safeguards that are there not only there to protect the program but the company. If a site wants to fly by the seat of their pants and go cheap they need to know that when the systems fails there's data to backup the dealers claim.
Strongly recommend a little program called speedfan for those that like to monitor heat and fans. I had a customer that kept getting overheating messages from this program, (it was operating at about 150 F, not really hot but past what is recommended) we already had two case fans in there but the room was hot, about 90 F. He installed an air conditioner. Probably added a year or two on the life of the backoffice.
The key really is to implement programs and safeguards that are there not only there to protect the program but the company. If a site wants to fly by the seat of their pants and go cheap they need to know that when the systems fails there's data to backup the dealers claim.
Our systems do no go out without a SmartPower UPS on each terminal and the office computer. Two piece units units look as good as a one piece if you can put the computer under the counter with the ups. For booksize computers we have had good luck with Digicom and TSD (touch screen dynamics).
And for monitoring power, these little guys provide alot of info. They track voltage spikes, lags, and many other things.
Bo
Kentucky phone support-
"Mash the Kentrol key and hit scape."
And for monitoring power, these little guys provide alot of info. They track voltage spikes, lags, and many other things.
Bo
Kentucky phone support-
"Mash the Kentrol key and hit scape."
RadAlohaQE
Vendor
For the record, the Radiant 1210 is also known in other circles as the Flytech. Let me just say that it ain't one of my favorite terminals and I will leave it at that. Now depending on the touchscreen it is either the Microtouch <usually the capacitive models> or it does use the P15xx Touchscreen Controller <the resistive models> but I could get a standard ELO touchscreen to work off the USB port if need be, just would have to replace the film and remove the connection by opening up the back panel to the original touchscreen.
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