Questions about Mitel products 6

[unclerico]

My company is in the discovery phase of our VoIP implementation. We have had vendors in for Fonality, Inter-Tel, Cisco, Mitel, Shortel, and Avaya. We REALLY liked the Mitel offering; we are looking at a 3300 IPC, 5330/5340 handsets, and the Mitel Applications Suite. We have three locations that will be connected via QoS enabled T1 MPLS circuits.

Now, I have heard time and again that Mitel is a legacy brand; however, I have been unable to dig up exactly what these other guys are referring to. One said that Mitel still uses TDM at its core at it has been retrofitted with IP capabilities whereas other products were built on IP from the ground up. If this is the case, what is the drawback?? Is Mitel a good offering for a multi location implementation?? Does it offer good survivability in case of a link outage or a losing a site completely?? Thanks ahead of time for your answers.

I hate all Uppercase... I don't want my groups to seem angry at me all the time! =)
- ColdFlame (vbscript forum)

 

[IrwinMFletcher]

I think what they mean is that the 3300 uses a call control that was developed on a TDM system. The disadvantage is that the underlying code to make the convert to IP is probably more complicated, but to the end user, that's irrelvant (you don't really care how much the software has to churn through on windows to bring up a Word document, as long as it brings it up). The advantage is that it then has access to 20+ years of feature development in that call control.

You can provision them for both redundant and resilient configurations.

As for scaling, I was looking at a deployment yesterday that had 30+ controllers across North America.

 

[kwbMitel]

Don't fall for the spin tactics.

What legacy means in the Mitel world is that they do not abandon their products or customers when something new comes along. Instead, they modify and enhance existing products using proven technology. Phones that were designed and build 20 years ago will still work on the product today side by side with the phone coming fresh from the factory.

The other companies don't have a "Legacy" so they find a way to make seem like a bad thing.

*******************************************************
Occam's Razor - All things being equal, the simplest solution is the right one.

 

[tlpeter]

My opinion is choose between Mitel and Avaya
Both systems have a very long history
One will do better then the other on different ways
It all depends on what you exactly want

ACS - Implement IP Office
ACA - Implement IP Telephony -- ACA - Design IP Telephony
ACA - Voice Services Management
______________
Women and cats can do as they please and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea!

 

[nytalkin]

additionally the Mitel dual bus architecture allows LEGACY Mitel digital (TDM) to be used by the IP controller thereby not requiring Mitel legacy users to replace thier entire systems in order to become IP enabled.

NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED!

 

[MitelInMyBlood]

And bear in mind that Cisco is a marketing company, not a technology company. Cisco bought the phone system they're marketing from another company. Cisco's warranty is also 90 days after which you'll need a SmartNet contract. Mitel is brought to you by a company who has been in the telephone and corporate office PBX (as well as Hotel/Motel PBX) business for more than 20 years.

As tlpeter says above, of the potential vendors you list, only Mitel and Avaya are worth considering. I've seen both and as he says it all depends on what you want. Personally I'm heavily biased toward Mitel and have been supporting/servicing/installing Mitel phone systems since 1986 and have been factory certified on them since 1989.

I think if I were going to set up a colony on the moon and had to take a phone system with me that I knew by God was dependable and would work when I got there, it would be Mitel.

 

[tlpeter]

MitelInMyBlood, i am more an Avaya guy

It is just what you are used to, the same with cars
They are both good

ACS - Implement IP Office
ACA - Implement IP Telephony -- ACA - Design IP Telephony
ACA - Voice Services Management
______________
Women and cats can do as they please and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea!

 

[unclerico]

Wow, thanks for the feedback guys. I apologize for letting this thread sit out here for so long without a response, I just got busy.

Anyways, I think it is pretty funny how whenever Cisco is brought into a discussion they are typically the defacto front runner just because of their name. I am a CCNP (well almost anyway ) and I still look to other products before looking at Cisco UNLESS it is for core routing/switching and firewalls. I just can't believe how nice the Mitel handsets are...just beautiful.

Again, thanks for all of your feedback. If we end up purchasing the Mitel solution you will be hearing from me again (yes that is a promise and a threat :-D)

I hate all Uppercase... I don't want my groups to seem angry at me all the time! =)
- ColdFlame (vbscript forum)

 

[unclerico]

tlpeter, you said:

One will do better then the other on different ways
It all depends on what you exactly want

Can you give me a few examples of where one might excel over the other??

I hate all Uppercase... I don't want my groups to seem angry at me all the time! =)
- ColdFlame (vbscript forum)

 

[AH64Armament]

Mitel is a feature rich telephone system. Meaning that many of the features it has to offer are enabled by default. This goes back to it's legacy products. All the above posts are correct in their description of legacy.
Mitel has been around for over 30 years - since 1979 I believe. The Mitel SX2000 which is the base for the 3300 has been around since the mid 80's and has evolved with many features.

What features are important to you? ACD? Embeded Voicemail? Voice encryption? Hot Desking?

I believe you mentioned the 5330 and 5340 IP sets. I personally use a 5340 on my desk with the IOC application. This application allows me to control the telephone with features like dial from outlook contacts. Screen pops on incoming calls.

Mitel 3300 has an embedded voicemail that now includes a basic level of unified messaging. This allows your mailbox to email you with a .wav file of the new message record-a-call, and personal contacts.

Some other applications include:
Teleworker - allows you to use an IP phone on any broadband internet connection without the use of a VPN. The TW has technology built in that makes for the best possible voice call over the internet.
Mobile Extension - allows you to "twin" your phone with another telephone, such as your cel phone. This allows you to publish ONE number as your contact number. Callers will only call you on your desk phone and this will allow you to take calls at either your desk or cel. If you are walking into your office, you can pull the call back off of your cel just by picking up the handset of the desk phone.
Audio Web Conferencing - allows you to host video conferencing with audio. This is directly supported with your Mitel telephones.
Your Assistant - Soft Phones. Allows you to have a PC based telephone using a headset on your PC you can make and receive telephone calls. This software also works with the Teleworker server so you don't have to lug an IP phone with you when you are on the road.
ACD - this is an embedded application in the 3300 and does require seat licensing. Most base packages include 5 ACD seats up front. The ACD package is very flexible and can use the embedded voicemail ports for Recorded Announcement Devices (RAD's). Additionally Mitel has teamed with PrairieFyre to provide a reporting package. This reporting package can collect both Call Records and ACD records and provide real-time statistics on a PC or a wall board. It also collects Call Records for historical reporting to track both inbound and outbound calls for pricing purposes or simply fraud prevention within a company.

Plus Mitel has a couple of other Voicemail applications that can be used. The NuPoint Messenger, and the Unified Messenger. The 3300 can also use a variety of other 3rd party Voicemail servers on the market. Active Voice is a good one that I'm familiar with and use.

I could really go on and on with the list.

Maybe someone else can list some features of the Avaya system.

I hope this helps.
- Mark

 

[unclerico]

Yes, it certainly does help. Thanks for your response.

I hate all Uppercase... I don't want my groups to seem angry at me all the time! =)
- ColdFlame (vbscript forum)

 

[tlpeter]

Can you give me a few examples of where one might excel over the other??

Simple short example

Call center then Avaya, Mitel can not beat that !
Teleworker, then Mitel, Avaya can not beat that

Both can do those solutions but one better then the other

And if you really want survivability then nothing beats Avaya
They can provide 99,99999% uptime but that costs big big big bucks

If you need just normal survivability then both are very good

They both have there very good point
If someone comes for a demo and see the phone's from both brands then Mitel has the best start already

You as a Cisco guy doing right looking for other brands too
Ciso is a big name in networking and carry's that big name with then in telephony but the telephony part is way behind, but they are getting better

ACS - Implement IP Office
ACA - Implement IP Telephony -- ACA - Design IP Telephony
ACA - Voice Services Management
______________
Women and cats can do as they please and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea!

 

[busster]

Okay, I will throw my comments in here just to be the outsider. In today's economy, a dollar is a dollar. If price is not a consideration, I would go with Avaya. Hands down my favorite, followed very closely by Mitel. But if you need the Avaya features with a Walmart price, go open source with an Asterisk Based system. Now don't get me wrong, you are going to invest some time here. So if you are not willing to invest the time, don't head down this path. Once you do, you are now the phone and network guy and responsible for it all. With server hardware prices coming down, you can build a dual processor, dual power supply, raid 0 Asterisk based phone system for less than $2k easily. Add you SIP phones for less than $150.00 per phone and have a great full featured phone system as long as your network infrastructure is good, but you would want that even for a Avaya/Mitel IP based phone system.
This kind of savings can save your job in this economy.

 

[kwbMitel]

One thing I haven't seen above. (Warning I'm very Mitel Biased) Aside from features and cost, the Mitel is by far the easiest interface I have used for programming and maintaining the system. Add that the GUI has a build in, context specific help file (need help on a form, go to the form and click help) and you have a very user friendly admin tool. That is not to say it's plug and play, but for maintenance purposes (Moves, Adds and Changes) it can't be beat.

*******************************************************
Occam's Razor - All things being equal, the simplest solution is the right one.

 

[tlpeter]

kwbMitel, you are very Mitel biased

I really do not like the web always gets stuck based tool

But the Avaya CM is very different and old fasion so that is not a plus either

ACS - Implement IP Office
ACA - Implement IP Telephony -- ACA - Design IP Telephony
ACA - Voice Services Management
______________
Women and cats can do as they please and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea!

 

[tlpeter]

Asterix can not beat Avaya or Mitel, Even Cisco can do better !!!

Asterix does not have a development team behind it that make patches !!!

Because it is open source you always depend on some one elses goodwill

Not a very good idea for business continuity !!!

ACS - Implement IP Office
ACA - Implement IP Telephony -- ACA - Design IP Telephony
ACA - Voice Services Management
______________
Women and cats can do as they please and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea!

 

[busster]

Have to agree somewhat with tlpeter, but dollar for dollar / feature for feature, Asterisk is hard to beat. GUI makes maintenance a breeze.
Avaya System Administrator is also a wonderful interface for the Communication Manager Platform, but if you were considering IP Office, or Mitel, I think the FreePBX asterisk interface is superior.
Hey if everyone just wanted vanilla, Baskin Robbins would not have 32 flavors.

 

[tlpeter]

I totaly do not agree
Ipoffice or the 3300 easy beat Asterix !!!

The asterix does not have the full functionality like the ipoffice or 3300 has !

The only reason would be basic telephony but then still a server can be of more cost then for example an ip500 in basic trim or a cxi

I program the ipoffice for over 5 jears now and if it was that easy then i would not work with it anymore
I am still learning new things everyday because the so flexible system allows me to thing most pbx's can not do

ACS - Implement IP Office
ACA - Implement IP Telephony -- ACA - Design IP Telephony
ACA - Voice Services Management
______________
Women and cats can do as they please and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea!

 

[busster]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. When a basic server without redundancy can be bought for less than $500.00 which will then give you: Inbound / outbound call center. Drag and drop call management. Outlook integration for click-to-call. Unified voicemail. CRM Integration for screen pops. Call recording/monitoring. Meet Me Conference calling with a GUI to control the conference. Unlimited music on hold sources. Teleworking. Unlimited users. No limitations as to which phone manufacture you use. Free softphones. Queue priorities by Caller ID or customer number. Inbound routing by time of day/day of week/holiday. Mutiple Day/Night controls. T.38 fax over SIP. Fax Server. I just can't buy that from Avaya or Mitel for $500.00.

 

[IrwinMFletcher]

busster, I don't have any experience with Asterix, but how can it support T38 without any special hardware? Unless of course you just mean as a T38 transit node? From what I see (Digium), the analog interface cards start at about $1000.