Pushing people in the direction of IT....

[guestgulkan]

Here in the UK, there is a lot of advertising for people to retrain for jobs in IT.
These adverts are aimed at people getting back into work, or that have been made redundant in other industries.

How is this supposed to work then?

The IT industry as it stands is overmanned and laying off highly trained staff left right and centre.
What is the point of telling ex-steel mill workers in their late 30's and 40's to retrain in IT because that is where the jobs/money lies.
I think a lot (99.99999%) of these people are going to be severely dissapointed/disillusioned!

 

[CajunCenturion]

Doesn't make much sense to me either.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[jrbarnett]

Yes I have wondered about those as well. I wonder if it is worth reporting to the advertising standards authority as it is quite clearly misleading.
Surely some people will get IT jobs as a result of those training courses, but far from all.

John

 

[AndyWatt]

As someone who was "forced" to go on one of these type of courses some years ago I can only say that it was a complete waste of time. I had to attend college one day a week to be taught about computing by people who knew less than me. Farcical.

Andy
"Logic is invincible because in order to combat logic it is necessary to use logic." -- Pierre Boutroux
"A computer program does what you tell it to do, not what you want it to do." -- Greer's Third Law

 

[Kjonnnn]

You have to remember "training people in IT" has practically become an industry all by itself. So they really aren't concerned with whether there is a job waiting for you. They are just concerned with keeping the revolving door of students going. The nontech person only hears of those techs that are making big bucks, so they take a bite of the worm the IT training industry waves in front of their faces.

Also, people want quick fixes. There are guaranteed shortages in doctors, nurses and teachers. But it takes too long to become one of those. IT ads give the impression of quick learning and big bucks at the end.

 

[jrbarnett]

I actually phoned up for a free MCP in computer networking for the unemployed, and spoke on the phone to the trainer, and he asked me what IT experience I had.
I told him - and he said I was too experienced for it and refused to let me enrol, because it was a beginners course.
So the people with practical experience and a degree can't get the MCP, but people who barely can run word can get an MCP after their name - its no wonder I don't think very highly of vendor certification.

John

 

[AndyWatt]

jrbarnett

That was pretty much my experience too. I found myself being an unofficial teacher's assistant during some lectures (when the lecturer wasn't intimidated by someone with a home computer who could tell the difference between ROM and RAM). It was there that I first met the "please write my code for me because I can't be bothered to learn" types. Needless to say most of them failed their programming assignments in spectacular fashion.

In the end I took to temping as a data entry clerk. I got paid, patronised a lot less, and improved my typing speed into the bargain. At one place I was actually earning more thatn a programmer friend. That was very satisfying.

Sorry to rant. The entire experience has left me somewhat bitter about "government training schemes", or should that be "unemployment statistic massaging schemes", and so-called further education.

Andy
"Logic is invincible because in order to combat logic it is necessary to use logic." -- Pierre Boutroux
"A computer program does what you tell it to do, not what you want it to do." -- Greer's Third Law

 

[dilettante]

jrbarnett, I think that was probably meant as a "hook" by some cert school. The "loss leader" is the MCP to get you in the door. When you find out it doesn't count for a lot they probably hope to get you back for more (paid) training. They may even get some sort of tax break for their "philanthropy."

We're seeing more and more of this sort of thing (getting back to the main thread topic). Last night some California biz-school prof or dean or what have you was interviewed on CNN. First she claimed it was mostly call center type jobs moving offshore. Then she claimed software developers in the high-cost nations should retrain for other careers. When pressed, she couldn't name anything they ought to "retrain" for. Then later on she claimed programming jobs move offshore not only for cheaper labor but because the workers were so much more skilled offshore. This one really gets me: how is it helping matters to dump more low-end workers into our labor pool?

The moneyed interests are chipping away at us from every direction. As discussed here many times, people in such careers (as well as traditional engineering careers) tend to shy away from organization efforts. I saw an article someplace recently entitled something like "Programmers: Programmed Against Unions."

I've come to the conclusion myself that there isn't any answer besides organization in some form, combined with intelligent boycotts and PR campaigns. We need something international in scope, not just a US or a UK solution.

After all, the real grievance many of us have is that we want a level playing field, not any guaranteed high pay scale at the expense of everybody else. Just a process to ensure that a reasonable fraction of production occurs within the same economy as the consumption of that being produced. Of course there has to be a reasonable profit incentive in order to let businesses succeed, but why must this be the one-way street it is so rapidly becoming?

Without the labor force exerting some sort of influence on the market we'll see no changes.

 

[dogbert2]

I agree, as I see a glut of unqualified persons who work in this field every day, and it will just get worse as time goes on.

My co-worker was relating to me a class in ASP and Javascript he is taking at a local comm. college and he told me flat out that the students who are in the class have no idea how to code ASP and JavaScript, but that he is the only one who seems to have the work finished each class period.

I think a lot of people are in for a shock when they see that IT isn't sitting behind a keyboard and monitor for 8 hours a day surfing the web or chatting with your online friends. It's a field which is viewed as an expense, and that unrealistic expectations are often put upon staff with ridge timelines, and a complete lack of testing and validation before the product is released to the consumer (i.e. - the consumer becomes your debugging team).

<sigh>

 

[lionelhill]

No, no, it's all very simple really. When you've finished the IT course you can go and get a job training people in IT so that they can become IT trainers too. In the end everyone will be training someone or being trained, but no one will be able to do anything at all.
Am I right in thinking that some aspects of IT training are just one giant pyramid scheme?

Incidentally, if there are really all these highly certified people kicking around in the world, why is it that most of the staff in most large computer stores find it a challenge to locate the on off switch? There's usually a technical chap drinking coffee behind a glass screen, two sales reps who talk in acronyms but aren't actually trusted to sell anything, and a vast quantity of low-end sales staff who can't operate a cash-register successfully and who are mostly bent on planning their next evening out/discussing mate's play-station/painting fingernails. I won't let on what store I've been to...

Feeling gloomy!

 

[AndyWatt]

> I won't let on what store I've been to...

Sounds like PC World to me.

You'd think computer stores would employ people who at least have some idea what an operating system is. I sometimes get the impression they think it's something to do with hospitals.

Andy
&quot;Logic is invincible because in order to combat logic it is necessary to use logic.&quot; -- Pierre Boutroux
&quot;A computer program does what you tell it to do, not what you want it to do.&quot; -- Greer's Third Law

 

[edfair]

The training schools have been attempting to attract the suckers for nearly 40 years with their great promises that fall short of reality.
And once IT became as large as it is, the colleges began using their technical divisions for making money the same way.
Unfortunately, in both cases, the people designing the courses and teaching the courses generally haven't a clue of the potential uses of the technology. They basically teach the use of the software packages that the big software houses produce but inadequately document.

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[chiph]

I won't say they're rip-offs, but I will say that they inflate the student's expectations.

We have had a couple of these schools go bankrupt in the local area. First time the students find out is when they return from the lunch break and find all the doors locked with signs posted: &quot;We're sorry, but...&quot;

If I were going to sign up for one of these classes, I wouldn't pay them thousands of dollars up front. I'd want to pay them per a timetable.

Chip H.


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[GlenJohnson]

No, no, it's all very simple really. When you've finished the IT course you can go and get a job training people in IT so that they can become IT trainers too.
Want to hear a good one? I know someone who did just this. Went to a business college to get his mcp, (Why a business college offers classes in mcp is another issue), and when he graduated, they gave him a job as a teacher for the course he just took. Every day it seems like I'm hearing someone say, &quot;I just enrolled or my son just enrolled in an it course&quot; and all I can do is groan internally and think, Maybe I should become a plumber?

Glen A. Johnson
&quot;Fall seven times, stand up eight.&quot;
Proverb

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[dilettante]

Hey GlenJohnson, I hear the hot ticket might be nursing right now. Something about a California law that requires one RN on staff for every 6 patients (goes into effect January 1 I think) was on the news the other morning.

 

[GlenJohnson]

I was a medic in the army in the early 70's, and I've thought about going into nursing.

Glen A. Johnson
&quot;Fall seven times, stand up eight.&quot;
Proverb

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