Tek-Tips is the largest IT community on the Internet today!
Members share and learn making Tek-Tips Forums the best source of peer-reviewed technical information on the Internet!
-
Congratulations strongm on being selected by the Tek-Tips community for having the most helpful posts in the forums last week. Way to Go!
PURCHASE
- Thread starter WilliamA
- Start date
DaleWatson123321
Programmer
Klaus,
Thanks for your contribution - it's appreciated and worthy of a ===> STAR <===.
A follow-up question... In Germany, do you have a perception of what version of Lotus 123 is preferred.
Awhile back, I had occasion to help out an employee of IBM in Germany who was having difficult with 123 MILLENIUM.
It occurred to me at the time that EVEN IBM/Lotus employees themselves were having GREAT difficulty in using "their own product".
I too am in TOTAL agreement that 123 Release 5 is BY FAR the BEST spreadsheet on the market, even when compared to the latest version of MS Excel.
There are probably several areas where Release 5 outperforms the competition, but for me, the TWO MOST IMPORTANT areas are:
1) The exceptionally POWERFUL and easy-to-use programming language of Release 5. It wasn't given a name, so I call it "SNAP" - for Super Natural Application Programming". It is BY FAR much superior to Visual Basic because of the combined power and ease-of-use.
2) The EXTREMELY powerful “database functionality” of Release 5.
For the past couple years, I've been attempting to get the most out of MS Excel because my employer has made the conversion. I can confirm, without any doubt whatsoever, that Lotus 123's database functionality is EXCEPTIONALLY MORE POWERFUL than Excel. There is "just no comparison".
For example, Excel does NOT have a QUERY-FIND, or a QUERY-MODIFY, or a database APPEND function.
And 123 Release 5 has EXTREMELY easy-to-use database "criteria" where one can easily create VERY complex criteria ...unlike Excel where there are EXTREME limitations by comparison.
I could go on, and on, and on, but the above should be adequate to get the message across to anyone else who might also be looking to "go back to the future".
From having viewed other similar postings, I get the distinct impression that there are indeed MANY, MANY Lotus 123 users who have MAINTAINED their Lotus 123 Release 5 version, or have reverted back to it as this person wants to do.
Any "insight" you can contribute into what is happening in Germany (or in the rest of Europe) would be most appreciated by myself and probably many others as well.
Who knows, perhaps even IBM will (finally) "get the message" that their PREMIUM product is STILL 123 Release 5. And with a little "dusting off", "proper enhancements", and advertising, they could easily re-gain the NUMBER ONE position that Lotus 123 Release 5 once had.
As for the main "enhancement", I firmly believe that the BEST possible one would be the merging of a product called "Visual Baler" (not to be confused with Visual Basic).
Visual Baler is a product designed to be a "compiler" for spreadsheets. It worked fairly well as a DOS product, but when the company attempted to "make the jump" to a Windows version, the resources required were just too great, and the Windows product (Visual Baler) "came up short". It does work, but contains sufficient bugs to prevent it from being used for "heavy duty" applications.
I believe there exists a GOLDEN opportunity for IBM/Lotus to purchase the rights to Visual Baler and combine it with Lotus 123 - RELEASE 5 - and offer it to the world as the "NEXT GENERATION" software. ...Ideal for creating stand-alone, tamper-proof Windows-based applications.
My understanding is that at one point, Lotus Corp. was concerned about Visual Baler being a "threat" - because they (mistakenly) believed users would no longer require Lotus 123. This is simply NOT true. Spreadsheet software will always be required for "general" use.
Visual Baler would be seen as, and used for, developing stand-alone applications that would be marketed as "third-party" software. MOREOVER, IBM/Lotus can expect to find that purchasers of this NEW spreadsheet/compiler product will be MORE THAN WILLING to pay a ROYALTY-FEE for each sale of products developed with this new software.
If anyone reading this has any "connections" with IBM, you could do IBM (and the world) a HUGE favor by passing along this information. But, it HAS to get through to the "top brass" at IBM, AND they have to be prepared to take a "SERIOUS" look at this option - to recognize that it is INDEED a GOLDEN opportunity.
Klaus... What are the chances that you happen to be IBM Vice-President for Europe ?
Best Regards, ...Dale Watson nd.watson@shaw.ca
Thanks for your contribution - it's appreciated and worthy of a ===> STAR <===.
A follow-up question... In Germany, do you have a perception of what version of Lotus 123 is preferred.
Awhile back, I had occasion to help out an employee of IBM in Germany who was having difficult with 123 MILLENIUM.
It occurred to me at the time that EVEN IBM/Lotus employees themselves were having GREAT difficulty in using "their own product".
I too am in TOTAL agreement that 123 Release 5 is BY FAR the BEST spreadsheet on the market, even when compared to the latest version of MS Excel.
There are probably several areas where Release 5 outperforms the competition, but for me, the TWO MOST IMPORTANT areas are:
1) The exceptionally POWERFUL and easy-to-use programming language of Release 5. It wasn't given a name, so I call it "SNAP" - for Super Natural Application Programming". It is BY FAR much superior to Visual Basic because of the combined power and ease-of-use.
2) The EXTREMELY powerful “database functionality” of Release 5.
For the past couple years, I've been attempting to get the most out of MS Excel because my employer has made the conversion. I can confirm, without any doubt whatsoever, that Lotus 123's database functionality is EXCEPTIONALLY MORE POWERFUL than Excel. There is "just no comparison".
For example, Excel does NOT have a QUERY-FIND, or a QUERY-MODIFY, or a database APPEND function.
And 123 Release 5 has EXTREMELY easy-to-use database "criteria" where one can easily create VERY complex criteria ...unlike Excel where there are EXTREME limitations by comparison.
I could go on, and on, and on, but the above should be adequate to get the message across to anyone else who might also be looking to "go back to the future".
From having viewed other similar postings, I get the distinct impression that there are indeed MANY, MANY Lotus 123 users who have MAINTAINED their Lotus 123 Release 5 version, or have reverted back to it as this person wants to do.
Any "insight" you can contribute into what is happening in Germany (or in the rest of Europe) would be most appreciated by myself and probably many others as well.
Who knows, perhaps even IBM will (finally) "get the message" that their PREMIUM product is STILL 123 Release 5. And with a little "dusting off", "proper enhancements", and advertising, they could easily re-gain the NUMBER ONE position that Lotus 123 Release 5 once had.
As for the main "enhancement", I firmly believe that the BEST possible one would be the merging of a product called "Visual Baler" (not to be confused with Visual Basic).
Visual Baler is a product designed to be a "compiler" for spreadsheets. It worked fairly well as a DOS product, but when the company attempted to "make the jump" to a Windows version, the resources required were just too great, and the Windows product (Visual Baler) "came up short". It does work, but contains sufficient bugs to prevent it from being used for "heavy duty" applications.
I believe there exists a GOLDEN opportunity for IBM/Lotus to purchase the rights to Visual Baler and combine it with Lotus 123 - RELEASE 5 - and offer it to the world as the "NEXT GENERATION" software. ...Ideal for creating stand-alone, tamper-proof Windows-based applications.
My understanding is that at one point, Lotus Corp. was concerned about Visual Baler being a "threat" - because they (mistakenly) believed users would no longer require Lotus 123. This is simply NOT true. Spreadsheet software will always be required for "general" use.
Visual Baler would be seen as, and used for, developing stand-alone applications that would be marketed as "third-party" software. MOREOVER, IBM/Lotus can expect to find that purchasers of this NEW spreadsheet/compiler product will be MORE THAN WILLING to pay a ROYALTY-FEE for each sale of products developed with this new software.
If anyone reading this has any "connections" with IBM, you could do IBM (and the world) a HUGE favor by passing along this information. But, it HAS to get through to the "top brass" at IBM, AND they have to be prepared to take a "SERIOUS" look at this option - to recognize that it is INDEED a GOLDEN opportunity.
Klaus... What are the chances that you happen to be IBM Vice-President for Europe ?
Best Regards, ...Dale Watson nd.watson@shaw.ca
Hi Dale,
thanks for the long (and for me very convincing arguments concerning R5-Software.)
I can only agree to what you have said.
I used Lotus 1-2-3 from the beginning (OS systems DOS to Windows) and all the time
I did like it much more than EXCEL which is a program which likes to crash too often, has
a very hard to learn programming language - and was always behind functions which Lotus
had or has already (e.g. addition of lump-sums, colored tabs, direct connection with Lotus-Notes, direct
access to Internet, easy to create links and several more fine features.)
But I did regret too, that Lotus Millenium (I use Version 9.5. here) lost the macro language
with which it was so easy to create loops and very sophisticated applications.
The lotus script language is - especially because of only few examples hard to understand -
and the only way for me was to RECORD the clicks AT CURSOR and to see what was
code, however in R5 one was able to THINK when programming - it was an INTUITIVE language,
easy to learn und very powerful indeed.
As you said, IBM is loosing more and more market compared to EXCEL - in our company
the auditors from outside all come with Laptops using EXCEL - but a compiled Lotus-exe-file
(similiar like BALER) WOULD BE A REVOLUTION, as such a program could easily called
by other programs - and in connection with R5 really would be a giant.
Beside Lotus 1-2-3 I am working with VISUAL Foxpro by Microsoft and the only reason,
that this is a remarkable fast and powerful database-solution is, that Microsoft bought it
from Foxbase, a small company located at Hamburg I think about 10 years ago.
But the time goes bye and bye and IBM remains asleep while Bill Gates is laughing and
always repairing his own faults in operating systems every time earning more money
with that. (Can you imagine that you will have no blue screens any more one day? - I can't.)
It is the the same problem, as the IBM Operating System was had much more stability
but was taken away from the market instead.
as DOS but was cancelled one day.
In Germany more and more people is using EXCEL (I worked for BAYER for about 17 years e.g.
and the whole company with more than 100.000 employees has explained EXCEL as their
standard-calculation program....
However I will stay with Lotus and defend Lotus - but again - regret the change from
R5 to Millenium....
Regards
Klaus
thanks for the long (and for me very convincing arguments concerning R5-Software.)
I can only agree to what you have said.
I used Lotus 1-2-3 from the beginning (OS systems DOS to Windows) and all the time
I did like it much more than EXCEL which is a program which likes to crash too often, has
a very hard to learn programming language - and was always behind functions which Lotus
had or has already (e.g. addition of lump-sums, colored tabs, direct connection with Lotus-Notes, direct
access to Internet, easy to create links and several more fine features.)
But I did regret too, that Lotus Millenium (I use Version 9.5. here) lost the macro language
with which it was so easy to create loops and very sophisticated applications.
The lotus script language is - especially because of only few examples hard to understand -
and the only way for me was to RECORD the clicks AT CURSOR and to see what was
code, however in R5 one was able to THINK when programming - it was an INTUITIVE language,
easy to learn und very powerful indeed.
As you said, IBM is loosing more and more market compared to EXCEL - in our company
the auditors from outside all come with Laptops using EXCEL - but a compiled Lotus-exe-file
(similiar like BALER) WOULD BE A REVOLUTION, as such a program could easily called
by other programs - and in connection with R5 really would be a giant.
Beside Lotus 1-2-3 I am working with VISUAL Foxpro by Microsoft and the only reason,
that this is a remarkable fast and powerful database-solution is, that Microsoft bought it
from Foxbase, a small company located at Hamburg I think about 10 years ago.
But the time goes bye and bye and IBM remains asleep while Bill Gates is laughing and
always repairing his own faults in operating systems every time earning more money
with that. (Can you imagine that you will have no blue screens any more one day? - I can't.)
It is the the same problem, as the IBM Operating System was had much more stability
but was taken away from the market instead.
as DOS but was cancelled one day.
In Germany more and more people is using EXCEL (I worked for BAYER for about 17 years e.g.
and the whole company with more than 100.000 employees has explained EXCEL as their
standard-calculation program....
However I will stay with Lotus and defend Lotus - but again - regret the change from
R5 to Millenium....
Regards
Klaus
DaleWatson123321
Programmer
Hi Klaus,
Thanks VERY much for your extensive response, and confirmation of my beliefs regarding the general spreadsheet situation.
It would be nice to believe that our "voices will be heard" by IBM and that they will finally "take action".
Hopefully someone from IBM will see this, or someone with "connections" to IBM will forward a copy of this posting to IBM.
Thanks again, Klaus, for taking the time to provide such a complete and candid response to the situation in Germany.
Best Regards, ...Dale Watson
WORK: dwatson@bsi.gov.mb.ca
HOME: nd.watson@shaw.ca
Thanks VERY much for your extensive response, and confirmation of my beliefs regarding the general spreadsheet situation.
It would be nice to believe that our "voices will be heard" by IBM and that they will finally "take action".
Hopefully someone from IBM will see this, or someone with "connections" to IBM will forward a copy of this posting to IBM.
Thanks again, Klaus, for taking the time to provide such a complete and candid response to the situation in Germany.
Best Regards, ...Dale Watson
WORK: dwatson@bsi.gov.mb.ca
HOME: nd.watson@shaw.ca
- Status