problems with quark, pdfs, different platforms 3

[decymber]

i will try to keep this short and simple, but it is rather complicated.

I am on a PC, Windows XP, using Quark 5.0 to produce a newspaper. After pages are complete, I PDF my pages using acrobat distiller 7.0 and acrobat 7.0 professional (straight thru quark). I upload pages to an ftp site at printer.

They are on mac g5 (i think) using quark 7. They just recently upgraded and before this there were no problems. Now my PDF pages will not print with their Quark (they make a new document and pull in my PDFs to print to an imagesetter... a panther pro 46, I believe). I think she said that quark quits on them when they import one of the PDFs. They have an older mac g3 with Quark 4.4 that will print out our pages ok. But they want to only use the newer computers.

I have tried to trouble shoot here as best as I can. I have used another computer, same problem. I have re-made templates with new style sheets to make sure the templates are not corrupt.

any ideas. i hope i gave enough info. they say it is our fault, i believe, on the basis that things did ok before their upgrade, that the problem lies on their end. i am willing to do just about anything to correct the problem. they are willing to do absolutely nothing. i used to work at the printers before coming to this newspaper and was the IT person for them. but mac have progressed so much in the last three years, that i feel kinda left out in the cold with them now that i work solely with a pc.

any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

thanks

 

[jimoblak]

If you have done nothing different, then it is clearly their issue. Quark 7 is in beta so this might explain why they are having problems with PDF files that were fine before.

You do not specify what type of PDF file you send them (PDF/X-1a?) and you do not specify why a printer is so silly to be using Quark as an imposition software for PDF files. Why don't they print directly from Acrobat or another PDF software instead of mangling it all in Quark? Quark's support of PDF is flaky and one should not rely on this workflow.



- - I hope this helps - -
_{(Complain to someone else if it doesn't)}

 

[decymber]

The printer is a newspaper as well. When I worked there, we had a very aggressive general manager who scouted out commercial jobs for the presses. They installed another press, had two crews and he was determined to keep them busy. They have 'hot folder' which you can drop the pdf directly into and it will rip and print with no assistance. But (yes, there is always a but) they have been unable to give us detailed specifications on the correct size. The pdf has to be perfect to use the hot folders. The pdfs print fine from the hot folders, but there is a size issue. My employer wants to upgrade our Quark. I would rather not. Things are working fine. And I don't believe that will solve the issue.
Help me with 'specify what type of PDF file you send them (PDF/X-1a?)'. Sorry I am unsure. I assumed it is just a PDF. Can you explain, I would really appreciate it?
Any other ideas?

Thanks Nicole

 

[jmgalvin]

Are you sure they're using Q7? It's not officially out. I could certainly see why they would be having problems outputting from a beta version of Q7.

The mac/pc thing should be no problem. I'm guessing that the reason they can print from the g3 is that they're using Q4. If they copied Q4 over to the g5 and ran it under the Classic enviroment, it would also work. I have Q4 running under classic on my g4 (the last one before the g5). Since your pdf prints from 4, it's clear that it's not your fault and the pdf is just fine. The fault is with the printer and/or their chosen version of quark.

I'm guessing that you're only real hope here is to get them to check the documentation for their latest version of quark to see what type of pdf it will accept. They should copy that and sent to you so you can set Distiller appropriately.

The thing about size mystifies me. Can't you just make the pdf at exactly the same size as the paper size you use? I don't lay out newspapers but I do layout a lot of ads that go in them. They give me the size for fulle page, quarter page, etc. I make the thing, pdf it, and send it in.



Using OSX 10.3.8 on a G4

 

[decymber]

I can make the size correctly, but the imagesetter has a punch system that is also on the the plate burner... to make sure that everything lines up correctly. So the page has to print with the right amount of space at the top and the bottom so it is positioned exactly perfect on the film. They switched to a shorter width film and that really gave us all fits. No more room for play. It has to exact. They have yet been able to give the correct offset to get the page positioned in the right spot. Confusing, eh? They switched film when I was still there. Basically, someone has to take the initive to work with the offset (in points, so it moves very little at a time) and print a page, check it on the light table, then adjust as necessary, reprint, check on light table, on so on a so forth. But no one down there has initive!!!!!

I am almost positive they told me Quark 7. I can make sure. But they upgraded everyone in the building and have had massive font issues, style sheet issues, etc. They do have a lower version of Quark on the new macs, as well. But it will not print either... I told them that was probably a preference problem. Since a higher version was also loaded. Don't know... I am not that technically 'bright', ya know. But I am very persistent. That is how I made it as their IT person for 5 years, with no formal training. I just keep on and keep on, until I get the issue resolved. They don't have that determination...

Can you explain to me the different pdfs that you mention a couple of post back... if you don't mind.

Thanks again, so much

 

[jmgalvin]

Here's the info on pdfX. don't get too excited about this. I've never had a paper or printer request X compliance. If they want it they can set up X complinace via the Preflight feature of Acrobat and put in their own workflow. I'll continue after all this stuff about X - scroll.

Adobe Acrobat supports PDF/X (Portable Document Format Exchange), an ISO standard
for blind exchange of PDF files. This means that all the criteria and content making up the
PDF file is in one file, and its criteria is based on the prepress service provider responsible
for output.
PDF/X instructions facilitate the creation and validation of PDF/X-compliant files by
eliminating many of the color, font, and trapping variables that lead to printing problems.
PDF/X doesn't replace PDF; rather, it is a subset of Adobe PDF, and it helps isolate the
contents of a PDF file intended exclusively for prepress use, or notifies a user of missing
items needed to ensure correct output. PDF/X may be used wherever PDF files are
exchanged as digital masters for print production--whether at the creation or output stage
of the workflow.
PDF/X consists of a family of standards targeted at different needs in the graphic arts
industry. Currently, the most widely used standards for a print publishing workflow are
available in two different types of PDF/X formats:
PDF/X-1a
Supports only a CMYK (and spot color) workflow, targeted to a specific output device
(for example, web offset printing according to SWOP). PDFX-1a files have the following
characteristics:
? All fonts are embedded.
? Color management is not allowed.
? Trapping, output intents, and the TrimBox or ArtBox are specified.
? Transfer functions and halftone screen frequencies are not allowed.
PDF/X-3
Supports a color-managed workflow, allowing the use of device-independent color (CIE
L*a*b, ICC-based color spaces, CalRGB, and CalGray), in addition to CMYK and spot
colors. This allows you to use ICC color profiles to specify color data later in the
workflow at the output device. PDF/X-3 files have the following characteristics:
? The PDF version is 1.3 or later.
? Device-independent color is allowed, in addition to CMYK and spot colors.
? All fonts are embedded.
? Trapping, output intents, and the TrimBox or ArtBox are specified.
? Transfer functions are not allowed.
? Halftone screen frequencies are restricted.

One thing I would do. Make sure that in your distiller settings you have pdf compatible with Acrobat 4. Check what the default compatability is for the distiller PRESS setting. If it isn't 4, edit it to be compatible with 4. Quark ususlly support Acorbat 4 but I don't know about anything higher. The New York Times still relies on Acrobat 4, as per their submission guidelines.

If you rely on the default Press setting in Distiller you might want to check the image downsampling since the default is 300 dpi for anything over 450 while most papers print at 200 dpi. That shouldn't effect their ability to print though.

You say that your making the pdf directly through Q5. You could try printing a postscript file and then distilling that to see it it works. For all you know Q5 could have some conficts with Acrobat Diatiller 7 since AC 7 is far newer than Q5. Printing postscript and distilling should remedy any conflict.

I'm guesing that, with all the problems, the printer is using Q6 or 6.5. An awful lot of people say it's a POS. If they're using 6, you should tell them to download the free 6.5 update from Quark - to solve many, but not all, problems. I never went past 4.1 and now use Indesign 3. I'll use Q4 if I have to.

I final thought on getting your stuff to print - why not burn a cd and send them the whole Quark package. Then they could just open the thing and print.

Using OSX 10.3.8 on a G4

 

[duncdude]

jmgalvin

what a fantastic explanation!

have a * from me!


Kind Regards
Duncan

 

[GraphicsTutor]

Quark 7 is in pre-release for testing only. According to Quark, it is not meant for production, only testing. They are releasing revised builds frequently. The first file I saved from it would not re-open. I now use it to play with, but not for real jobs. Quark reported last week that testers have caught 1000 defects, which will either be fixed or dropped by final release in a couple months. Request the printer go back to 6.5 for your job. Or find a new printer.

Thanks for the pdf info, I have never taken the time to look up the differences in the formats.