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Price of MCSE
- Thread starter chiph
- Start date
butchrecon
MIS
It is not worth it. Yes boot camps are fatster (Usually 4-6 weeks compaired to 6Months to a year on Self study), BUT...
MCSE tests are $100 each if you take 10 tests to get your MCSE (Thats including a couple of tests you may fail). If you facture in $1000 for GOOD books you come up with $2000. Thats a $7000 SAVINGS. I also feel you learn more doing it yourself. Thats how I am doing it and I enjoy it. I took 4 week NT4 boot camp 3 years ago and quit 2 weeks into it. I was frustrated that all they were trying to give different ways to pass the exam by stuffing you full of questions and answers. I did not learn anything in the 2 weeks I took it (3 hours a nite, 5 days a week for 2 weeks). So I left and now I am working on my Win2K MCSE and doing well at it. James Collins
Systems Support Engineer
A+, MCP
email: butchrecon@skyenet.net
Please let us (Tek-tips members) know if the solutions we provide are helpful to you. Not only do they help you but they may help others.
MCSE tests are $100 each if you take 10 tests to get your MCSE (Thats including a couple of tests you may fail). If you facture in $1000 for GOOD books you come up with $2000. Thats a $7000 SAVINGS. I also feel you learn more doing it yourself. Thats how I am doing it and I enjoy it. I took 4 week NT4 boot camp 3 years ago and quit 2 weeks into it. I was frustrated that all they were trying to give different ways to pass the exam by stuffing you full of questions and answers. I did not learn anything in the 2 weeks I took it (3 hours a nite, 5 days a week for 2 weeks). So I left and now I am working on my Win2K MCSE and doing well at it. James Collins
Systems Support Engineer
A+, MCP
email: butchrecon@skyenet.net
Please let us (Tek-tips members) know if the solutions we provide are helpful to you. Not only do they help you but they may help others.
I would agree that they are not worth it. I've never gone through one, but a couple of years ago, in the midst of a career change, I went to one of those "Introduction to IT" classes at a boot camp in my area. It was the biggest snow job I've ever seen. At that time, they were saying that it would cost about $6,000 to take their classes for an MCSE. The instructor tried his best to be vague, but when pinned down, he admitted that without experience, it was going to be difficult for an MCSE to get a job making much more than $30K in my area. I didn't think it was worth it at the time, so I didn't take the classes as I would have had to go into debt to do it. A couple of IT/.com jobs later, now I'm a MIS Coordinator at a company that couldn't afford to pay for an experienced IT Pro. I'll get my certifications eventually, but it won't be through a boot camp. I've lucked into a situation where I can learn on the job, and that plus self-study should be enough for me to pass the tests. At least I hope so.
There are 2 different kinds of boot camps. One will stay, one will not.
Type 1 - turn up and be spoonfed exam answers. Who benefits? The exam companies as more people are taking the exams than can pass them. Why do it? Get rich quick scheme. Downside? Industry seen as lowest common denominator.
Type 2 - 3 months or more preparation, reading all the manuals and running your own lab. Turn up for the "boot camp" and go through everything really quickly just to tidy it all up and group things together so they really sink in. No mention of exam stuff. Before they let you on the course, you get a bunch of exam questions and they don't let you in if you can't pass them.
People taking and companies offering type 1 will go downhill. I have just completed a boot camp with a well known boot camp company who goes down the type 2 road. I feel I know expert level all of the bits I studied. I am retaining it and am looking to be employed by that company as a technical trainer.
Speak to people who have been to these testing centres for their feedback - they are NOT all the same.
I am not going to name drop the company I have used though.
Type 1 - turn up and be spoonfed exam answers. Who benefits? The exam companies as more people are taking the exams than can pass them. Why do it? Get rich quick scheme. Downside? Industry seen as lowest common denominator.
Type 2 - 3 months or more preparation, reading all the manuals and running your own lab. Turn up for the "boot camp" and go through everything really quickly just to tidy it all up and group things together so they really sink in. No mention of exam stuff. Before they let you on the course, you get a bunch of exam questions and they don't let you in if you can't pass them.
People taking and companies offering type 1 will go downhill. I have just completed a boot camp with a well known boot camp company who goes down the type 2 road. I feel I know expert level all of the bits I studied. I am retaining it and am looking to be employed by that company as a technical trainer.
Speak to people who have been to these testing centres for their feedback - they are NOT all the same.
I am not going to name drop the company I have used though.
CassieSimons
Programmer
IMHO, either on-the-job experience plus self study, or the "Type 2" bootcamp described above, are both great ways to get your MCSE.
I believe that some people can also do it purely by self study if you are motivated and disciplined and can get the resources at home i.e. hardware and software.
Cassie ????????????????????????
You don't need questions
You need answers.
????????????????????????
I believe that some people can also do it purely by self study if you are motivated and disciplined and can get the resources at home i.e. hardware and software.
Cassie ????????????????????????
You don't need questions
You need answers.
????????????????????????
Okay this sounds like a no-brainer, but so far no one's had an answer for me and I'm stumped.
If experience gets you a good job, and no one will hire you without experience, where do you get the experience?
I've taken some VB and C++ classes at the community college (real courses, not boot camp) and with some private self-study I'll be ready to take some of the MSCE tests (not all of them but I'm hoping more for a MSP than anything else at this point).
But looking through the want ads I see requests for experienced programmers. I've yet to see anything for a "trainee" or "apprentice" or "train on the job" position, and this would be exactly what I'm looking for.
Knowledge is great, but if you don't have any way to apply it (via a job), it's useless.
Someone give me some encouragement, or umm..an apprenticeship?
Bes
If experience gets you a good job, and no one will hire you without experience, where do you get the experience?
I've taken some VB and C++ classes at the community college (real courses, not boot camp) and with some private self-study I'll be ready to take some of the MSCE tests (not all of them but I'm hoping more for a MSP than anything else at this point).
But looking through the want ads I see requests for experienced programmers. I've yet to see anything for a "trainee" or "apprentice" or "train on the job" position, and this would be exactly what I'm looking for.
Knowledge is great, but if you don't have any way to apply it (via a job), it's useless.
Someone give me some encouragement, or umm..an apprenticeship?
Bes
CassieSimons
Programmer
Hi Bes,
First of all, congratulations on having the drive, ambition and self-discipline to take classes and self-train. That on its own is a good set of attributes to impress an employer with.
What you rightly say you need next is some commercial experience to put on your CV. So here are some suggestions for you. They may or may not be possible, depending on your particular circumstances. But I hope that they will give you some ideas.
1. Approach local charities and offer your services free of charge - ask them about their administration systems and then suggest a small application that could help them automate one or more procedures. Design, develop and deliver the application. Keep a copy and make good quality design documentation for your portfolio.
2. Use a similar approach with local small businesses or old employers you may still be in touch with. Perhaps for a nominal fee.
3. Get involved with an on-line project developing an application in your chosen languages. You could try
If you can get a couple of projects under your belt in these ways, and gain your MCSD, I would think you would be a good catch for lots of employers out there!
Hope this will help you get started, please let us know how you get on!
Cassie ????????????????????????
You don't need questions
You need answers.
????????????????????????
First of all, congratulations on having the drive, ambition and self-discipline to take classes and self-train. That on its own is a good set of attributes to impress an employer with.
What you rightly say you need next is some commercial experience to put on your CV. So here are some suggestions for you. They may or may not be possible, depending on your particular circumstances. But I hope that they will give you some ideas.
1. Approach local charities and offer your services free of charge - ask them about their administration systems and then suggest a small application that could help them automate one or more procedures. Design, develop and deliver the application. Keep a copy and make good quality design documentation for your portfolio.
2. Use a similar approach with local small businesses or old employers you may still be in touch with. Perhaps for a nominal fee.
3. Get involved with an on-line project developing an application in your chosen languages. You could try
If you can get a couple of projects under your belt in these ways, and gain your MCSD, I would think you would be a good catch for lots of employers out there!
Hope this will help you get started, please let us know how you get on!
Cassie ????????????????????????
You don't need questions
You need answers.
????????????????????????
- Thread starter
- #8
Cassie & Bes -
Another good idea is to get in touch with some people who are moonlighting (doing work on the side after their usual job's hours). I'm constantly amazed at the number of small "virtual corporations" out there doing consulting work. All these guys are known by their reputations, so make sure you do good work for them.
Chip H.
Another good idea is to get in touch with some people who are moonlighting (doing work on the side after their usual job's hours). I'm constantly amazed at the number of small "virtual corporations" out there doing consulting work. All these guys are known by their reputations, so make sure you do good work for them.
Chip H.
The way I am doing it is I am taking the courses at a local community college. This college has a two year program. First year is Novell. I was Novell Certified (CNE) & A+ certified. This year is Microsoft Certification (MCSE 2000). We go through about a chapter a day. I can still have a full time job because I am done before noon every day.
For me this is the way to go because I have time to learn & understand the material, plus we get to work on their computers. Then after taking these classes, plus a couple of other ones, they give you an Associates in applied computer networking.
The best thing for me is that it is basically free because I get financial aid.
For me this is the way to go because I have time to learn & understand the material, plus we get to work on their computers. Then after taking these classes, plus a couple of other ones, they give you an Associates in applied computer networking.
The best thing for me is that it is basically free because I get financial aid.
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