Possible solution? TCP/IP Issue 1

[tteknos]

I am running a PC with Windows 2000. I need the PC to connect to and work with 2 different devices plus connect to a network.

Device 1: An I/O device connected through IPX
Device 2: A device that connects through TCP/IP, but has no routing capability, so I can ONLY set an IP to it, and am not able to define a subnet or gateway
Device 3: Novell Netware 6 Server using TCP/IP

I currently have 1 network card connecting to Devices 1 and 2 simultaneously without a problem. The problem occurs when I add a 2nd network card to connect to my Novell network with TCP/IP. The IPX device (device 1) still works, but only one or the other of devices 2 and 3 can work with the IPX device. Because I don't need any gateways setup, and device 2 can't accept any gateways/subnets, I have a bit of a problem.

Now I know that I could get this to work with a combination of a hub and some kind of configurable router. The fact is though, that's an expensive option, one that I would like to do without. The entire problem lies in the TCP/IP, and not the IPX. So, basically I'm looking for recommendations on what I can do to resolve this issue, without purchasing additional hardware. Thanks in advance.

-Ted

 

[Accessdabbler]

How are two external devices connected to 1 NIC on the Win2K machine?

 

[tteknos]

The 2 devices go into a hub, then into the NIC. Each use a different protocol, like I stated, so 1 NIC works fine.

 

[manarth]

You have 2 NICs, ergo 2 IP addresses...and 2 completely independent networks - this is a multihomed machine.
see

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;en-us;q157025

for advice....

Easy solution 1 - put them all on the same network. Problem solved. (hopefully!)

Do you have any internet access aswell?
Or is simply 2 private networks?

To resolve the IP issue without changing to one network, you need to define a default gateway for TCP/IP traffic, and add route entries for traffic not bound for the default IP.

i.e.
Default gateway=Nic2
route add IPdevice2 Nic1 metric 2

Nic1 = devices network, Nic2 = novell network
device 3 is IPX - doesn't need a TCP/IP routing entry...
Device 2 doesn't contain any subnetting / routing, which simply means it will only connect on the network it's physically connected to.


Does this answer your question?
If not reply with - your PC'ss IPs (run command prompt; type ipconfig /all, post what appears), the IP of device 2, the setup of your Novell Network.

<marc>

 

[tteknos]

Adding the routing commands what something I was going to get around trying, but there's something I don't know about. The default gateway. There is no gateway. You say that I need to define a gateway, but what is that gateway to be? The Novell server? We have a novell server, but we have a linux machine that is used as a gateway for the internet (but this machine doesn't need to be on the internet, so that doesn't matter). Also, in the route command you specified, what is the 2 after metric for, what exactly does that define.

I don't know exactly what you want as far as the setup of our novell network, so you'll have to be more specific there. As far as the IP's. My Novell Network uses the IP scheme of 192.168.0.x, while the Industrial Machine use 10.0.0.x. So, we have 2 NIC's in the machine. 1, the primary (the only one enabled at the moment) is 10.0.0.1, no gateway. The device it's connecting to that uses TCP/IP is 10.0.0.2. The 2nd network card is 192.168.0.181 (to connect to our Novell Network). But like I said, NIC 2 is disabled because when it's working, TCP/IP only works on one or the other, not both at the same time.

Thanks for all the help so far. You've been more helpful that anyone thus far. Thanks in advance for any future help.

-Ted

 

[manarth]

Hi Ted, so far so good...

There can only be ONE default gateway per machine (even on a multihomed machine)...

The configuration is up to you - basically, the default gateway is where ALL traffic is directed, unless it is EXPLICITLY directed in the routing table.
Generally, the default gateway is pointed to the more complex network, the remainder has to be explicitly listed in routing tables.

In this case you have 2 Class C networks; 192.168.0.x (mask 255.255.255.0) and 10.0.0.x (mask 255.255.255.0) - YOU MUST USE THE SUBNET MASKS.

These IP addresses are important - they are only found on private networks, not the internet. They have been reserved by IANA for this purpose. Keep to them!

If the target IP shares the same Subnet (as either of the NICs), the IP will not be routed through a gateway. If it is on a different subnet, it will be sent to the gateway (router), then the Gateway will pass it to the appropriate destination.

e.g. machine's IP = 192.168.0.3 mask 255.255.255.0
192.168.0.5 would not be sent to the gateway
192.168.1.3 would be sent to the gateway for resolution
155.125.5.8 would be sent to the gateway for resolution

NB 192.168.0.x is reserved for private (Class C) networks - any address starting 192.168.0 should NEVER be found on the internet. Ever.

The routing table is an ASCII file held by windows; you can see the entries in it by typing the dos command &quot;Route print&quot;; you can add to the entries through &quot;Route add&quot; or delete through &quot;Route delete&quot;...
For more info open a dos prompt and type &quot;route help&quot;, or &quot;route list&quot;



solution(s!)

1. Set the properties of the NIC connected to the Novell network.
a) Either DHCP allocated IP, or use static IP 192.168.0.a and subnet mask 255.255.255.0 - Use the subnetting!
b) Set default gateway 192.168.0.b (the IP of the Linux box. If this doesn't have an IP of 192.168.0.b on the LAN, post back with the IP configuration of the Novell network)
You might as well configure it with an appropriate gateway system, in case you wish to access the net in the future.
As it's given appropriate subnetting (i.e. 192.186.0.b mask 255.255.255.0) this step isn't strictly necessary, but makes good practice.)


2. Set the properties of the devices' NIC
a) NO DEFAULT GATEWAY - only 1 allowed per machine; not per NIC.
b) Set IP 10.0.0.1; subnet mask 255.255.255.0
NB technically 10.x.x.x is a Class A subnet; in this instance it can be treated as a class C subnet for simplicity - as the only other device is similar to Class C.
c) Use Dos command &quot;Route add 10.0.0.2 10.0.0.1 mask 255.255.255.0 metric 1&quot;
NB Metric 1 gives it a penalty of &quot;1&quot; to get to the destination...i.e. 1 hop. The metric x is the number of hops it takes to get to it's destination; it can be used as a way of prioritising routes - e.g. 2 possible routes on the same network a---d or a---b---c---d; a---d has 1 hop and a---b---c---d has 3 hops - if routed in this manner it will try a---d first - then if no success will try a---b---c---d.
You want to make 10.0.0.x as short a hop as poss, so it doesn't get routed into the internet - otherwise your machine will be looking for 10.0.0.x somewhere on the internet - to no success - before trying on its internal network.



Or: use option 2 - FAR easier! as long as Device2 can accept a different IP allocation!

a) Throw away your second NIC card
b) Set Device2 to use a static IP 192.168.0.z where z is unallocated
c) Plug them all into the same ethernet hub
d) Forget routing
e) Set gateway (hell - you might as well) of 192.168.0.b (i.e. the IP of your Linux box)


Try these ideas - see what resultsyou get - let us know what works / doesn't!

<marc>

 

[tteknos]

Ok I finally got around to do working on this. Option #2 does not work. I went with option #1.

I setup the one NIC with an IP of 192.168.0.180, gateway of 192.168.0.2 (linux server), subnet mask of 255.255.255.0. This is also the NIC that's connected to our Novell network.

The IP of device 2 is 10.0.0.2, and the IP of the NIC connected to it is 10.0.0.1, subnet mask of 255.255.255.0.

With just doing this, I can ping anything on the 192.168.0.x (ie. the Novell network), and can also ping the device (10.0.0.2). I can connect to the internet and everything, but the Novell client can not find the tree or the server. I can ping the server, but the client just can't see it. This is before I did ANY routing commands.

Now I was under the impression that I could resolve this by adding the route command you suggested:
route add 10.0.0.2 10.0.0.1 mask 255.255.255.0 metric 1

It does not work though - it comes back with the following error:
The route addition failed: The specific mask paramater is invalid. <Destination & Mask) != Destination.

I tried different things using the information under route help, but came up with nothing. Can you make any suggestions? Thanks.

-Ted

 

[tteknos]

Ok, I got it working by adding the route command:

route add 10.0.0.2 10.0.0.1 metric 2

Everything worked as it should, connecting to the server and everything. I rebooted, and added the route command again (because I didn't add the -p switch before) and it doesn't work anymore. Duplicating exactly what I did after the reboot produces no results. Please help =)

Ted

 

[manarth]

Hi Ted -

been reading all the posts...

1. I got it slightly wrong - you don't even need the second &quot;route&quot; command - because all IPs are on the same subnet (i.e. all the 198.s are on 1 subnet and all the 10.s are on the other) the explicit routing command isn't needed, it interferes... sorry - my bad!
you can remove it through dos command &quot;route delete 10.0.0.2&quot;
this should put you back to where TCP/IP works properly...

&quot;I can connect to the internet and everything, but the Novell client can not find the tree or the server. I can ping the server, but the client just can't see it.&quot;

This is because Novell networks use a different protocol to TCP/IP. Alas, Novell is not my forte - if it were simply TCP/IP, then no prob...

It sounds like your TCP/IP configuration is fine at this stage...you need to configure the Novell protocol...

<marc thinks>Is IPX installed on the NIC for your Novell network? If not, install it - Novell Networking uses IPX. That should resolve the Novell connection issue (hopefully!)

if not, try adding the Novell specific &quot;IPX ODI&quot; protocol on the client, or checking if there's any way to connect to the server purely using TCP/IP, or configuring your IPX protocol to whatever config your server requires.

Sorry for sending you down the garden path with the &quot;route&quot; command Ted - I got carried away thinking the prob was more complex than it actually was...You're essentially using 2 completely independant systems - Novell uses IPX, the internet works using TCP/IP, and the 2 protocols sit happily side by side.

Good luck - let us know if you've any success.

<marc>[ul]help us help![li]please provide feedback on what works / doesn't[/li][li]not sure where to start? click here: faq581-3339[/li][/sup][/ul][/sup]

 

[tteknos]

Actually, I am running the newest version of Novell, which now uses mainly TCP/IP. It's the only protocol installed on the server on a default installation (ipx can be installed if you wish). So that can't be done because IPX isn't an option.

I really do think there needs to be a routing command. The first time I got this working was right after I did:

route add 10.0.0.2 10.0.0.1 metric 2

Like I said, after the reboot, I can't get it to work, even after I add the route again. I'm looking for suggestions as to what I can try for the route command, since I'm lost at the moment. Thanks.

Ted

 

[bcastner]

tteknos,

You need to add the -p parameter to the route command.

This tells it to be persistant (i.e. not go away when you reboot).

so route add -p ........etc...

 

[tteknos]

Yea I know that. Like I said in an earlier post, I used the -p, but the route command didn't do anything after the reboot, even with the -p. Either way, I got it working. It was a Novell protocol issue. Thanks for the help though guys. =)

-Ted