Poor Grades

[tgr430]

Hi,

I go to college and I am a CIS major. I have taken programing classes but I have gotten Cs in all of them. However, I do work at the helpdesk for the IT dept at school. My question is, what do employeers look at more when they are hiring, good grades or your work experience?

Thank you!

 

[CajunCenturion]

Both.

Often you will be required to indicate your CS GPA and your overall GPA on the employment application.

In addition, your Work Ethic, Attitude, and Talent will also be evaluated, and your GPA may, underscore may, be used as a reflection on your work ethic, attitude, and talent.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[tgr430]

Hi CajunCenturion,

Thanks for the reply. My GPA is descent I haven't failed any courses. My work ethic is what I consider good and I have good relations with my supervisors who can write letters of recommendations for me.

I work at school and my professors see me working at the helpdesk. So, when I go to class they think I know everything and I am a "sitting duck" for them to pick on.

I know that I have an advantage over my peers because someday I can write on my resume that I have worked at a helpdesk, and my peers in my class can't do that. Thats the only thing that troubles me.

Thank you for your reply. Have a great day!

 

[JeanNiBee]

Hi

I was always a C+ -> B- style student, I never failed a course and I had a quest for knowledge. I beleive my lower than normal marks were solely becsause I was not callenged in schools. I also tended to learn technologies faster on my own throgh bok reading and experimentation.

I have NEVER been asked for my grades for any job I have worked in. My work experience and the interview process have spoken for itself. I have been ask to provide copies of degrees or certificates. This was mostly for comporations that are ISO certified.

My career has spanned 15+ years in IT and it's been very very successful. I have architected the B2B system for 2 banks, written a complete ERP/ERM system for a global printing and distribution company and currently I work for a major multi-national financial institution doing development and maintenance upgrades.

I beleive so long as you have the work ethic, can show a consistant employement record (I.E. No long breaks between jobs) and prove you can adapt with the times, you should be okay.

Then again your marks NEVER hurt.



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[tgr430]

Hi,

Thanks for your advice. I appreciate it. I'm just in school right now and I am not sure what I want to do. Thanks for replying to my thread. Have a great day!

Terry

 

[jimoo]

Most large companies want to see your transcripts and will see your poor grades. Without trying to make excuses, it is important to point out that grades are based on many factors.

Were you working fulltime and going to school.
Were you raising a family, etc.

Maybe you didn't have the time to put into it in order to get a better grade.

Again, employers don't like a lot of excuses, but you can be honest without making it sound bad.

Jim Osieczonek
Delta Business Group, LLC

http://www.deltabg.com

 

[tgr430]

Hi Jimoo,

Thank you for your reply. I am not trying to make an excuse, but I am being honest. I work part time and I go to school. My school is also 45 minutes away from my house so I have to commute back and forth everyday. Its not like I'm laying on the couch watching TV and playing Playstation all day.

My GPA is fine, I haven't failed anything. I have taken programming classes and my lowest grade in my programming classes was a C- and that was in C++. I had a C in Cobol, a C+ in Visual Basic, C- in File Processing and a C in Database Programming which was ACCESS.

I don't know what to say. I seem to learn more working at the helpdesk then going to class!

Thank you for your reply!

Terry

 

[chiph]

tgr430 -

You need to ask yourself why you're working at the helpdesk -- is it to earn money to pay for school? Or are you there to learn more about the various systems & applications in use at the university?

What I'm trying to say is -- you're in school in order to get a degree which will allow you to get a high-paying job afterwards, right? And given that your first employer will want to know what your GPA was (and maybe see your transcript), wouldn't it make sense to maximize your GPA in order to have more employment options open to you when you graduate?

Chip H.


If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first

 

[tgr430]

Hi Chip,

I'm working for both of those reasons. I do need the money (which is not a lot for a student) and to learn. My main reason for working at school is that I want to have a competitive edge over my peers who haven't had any working expirience in the field.

I look at it this way, my GPA is good but my grades in programming have been Cs. The person next to me has a higher GPA then me and higher grades however, that person has no work expirience.

I agree with you on my employeer wanting to see my transcrip and a high GPA but this is just impossible, when you are taking 2 programing classes and working 20 hours a week, while commuting back and forth to school. Not trying to make excuses, by all means. Have a great day!

Terry

 

[jimoo]

Hi tgr430

I didn't mean for it to sound like you were making excuses. I simply meant that most companies understand many things effect GPA. Just let them know you were working fulltime, etc.

Also, you mentioned you learn better hands-on. Companies understand some people (most in my opinion) learn best hands on. If they ask, tell them you like to work hands on.





Jim Osieczonek
Delta Business Group, LLC

http://www.deltabg.com

 

[willir]

tgr430

I hire students from time-to-time. I do look at transacripts, but I also look at transferable skills. Once having gone through University myself, I do understand that the first term or two can be tough -- new frame of mind, new responsibilities, to freedom at last (party animal).

Due to the nature of support, I work on developing their trouble shooting skills. Takes one to six weeks depending on their abilities.

I hired this one guy -- not exactly what I was looking for, but I had put in my request too late in the year. He was the best of the rather poor group of candidates. He took about six weeks to come on board. Yuck I hate that.

But then he clicked, and became pretty good.

I saw him in the mall a couple of years later. He thanked me over and over again. He explained that by working on his trouble shooting skills, he was able to apply this to his course work -- programming of course. His marks went from a C to an A. And he had just landed a great job.

A couple of years later, I hired a girl with very little experience in computers. (Stats major) But during the interview, I was able to determine that she had excellent transferable skills including trouble shooting. I hired her over others with more experience -- tough call especially since one guy had oodles.

She was a star employee. Second best I ever hired. She came up to speed within one week, and exceled.

Bottom line -- I feel transferable skills will usually win out. Marks reflect some of this ability, but may be clouded by the academic environment.

Richard

 

[tgr430]

Thanks Richard,

Just one gray area. By transferrable skills, do you mean technical skills or your "soft skills" ie people skills, work skills etc?

Thanks for advice and your examples.

Terry

 

[tgr430]

Thats OK Jim,

No offense taken. I just get frustrated in school cause I work so hard and sometimes I get very little back in terms of grades. I guess I'll just have to continue working hard and keep my mouth shut to my professors. And work with the grades I got. Thanks!

Terry

 

[willir]

Terry

Transferable skills are transferable from job to job, and usually refer to "soft skills". In this case, trouble shooting... useful for programming, desktop support, system admin and automechanic.

And I can understand your frustration...
I remember my first year of two at university. I studied hard but my marks did not seem to refelct my efforts. When I moved on to a masters degree, I learned that I was studying wrong. In my case, I was studying on the details without the big picture in mind.

I realized that it was more important for me to look at the big picture, and then work on the details.

In other words, why is this drat old nit-pickey detail worth knowing? Once I related it to the big picture things, I added relavence to what I was studying and things became much, much easier. At least I think that is why things got easier.

It also helped when answering to written questions because I could focus on the important stuff without getting bogged down on the details.

And BTW, sometimes, when trying to justify a detail, I found myself saying - "because they said so" which didn't help me add relavence, but this frame of mind helpded me to accept it and move on.

I suspect that it is sometimes hard to see the bigger picture when mired down with a flood of details. But over time, the details start to make sense as little pieces in a large jig-saw puzzle.

 

[tgr430]

So basically what you're saying Richard, is look at the big picture and don't sweat the small stuff?

 

[willir]

Not quite.
For the IT business, at the tech level, you still need to know the small stuff. But the big picture gives you a way on setting the important priorities, helps you to focus on which details are more important and helps you tie the details together.

To me, "don't sweat the small stuff" suggests if you wreck your car today, at least you are alive type of thing. This phylosophy helps you deal with the truely important things in life -- family, friends, life time goals; It will tell you the test is not that important in the scheme of things. But it wont help you pass the test (except you willl be more relaxed which is a good thing).

 

[BiggerDon]

Not only are the soft and transferable skills a much added bonus to but don't forget to learn the business side of things as well. I have a Bachelor of Adminstration and have worked on everything but Unix since I graduated. One of the things I have had commented to me is that I do understand a balance sheet (started in accounting and switched to systems half way through my course) and that was unique in systems at that time. Systems is a more robust career choice now than it was when I started 17 years ago. Back then if you were a good code cutter that was all you did! Now, you have to be able to do all the analysis as well and you will need to understand the business side of things to be able to create and implement solutions for your users.

BTW....never once been asked about my marks. I think if you complete your program and get the paper, you have proven that you can complete a long term project. The question is did you learn anything on the way or just memorize the night before and regurgiate on a test paper the next day and not be able to apply any acquired knowledge to a new problem? I've seen MCSE's who personify Means Completed Some Exam!

 

[benlinkknilneb]

Hi tgr430,

As a fellow college student who is working part-time, I would say that what you learn in the classroom won't compare to what you get from the experience of working in the field. Your grades depend on a lot of things outside of your control (not saying low grades aren't your fault, but we've all had the prof who just loved to score low...). Just today I was looking at a major project that we finished up this week @ work... and almost none of the skills I had to use to finish it were learned in a classroom. If you can prove you know what you're talking about, people will listen whether or not you had a stellar GPA. Mine is currently in the 3.0 range... but I can probably out-perform ANYONE in my current CS class (who, aside from maybe 1 or 2 people, haven't had any work experience). It may be hard to get in the door, but once you get in, your experience will shine through.

Ben

"If thine enemy offend thee, give his child a drum." - Anonymous

 

[tgr430]

Thanks Ben,

I appreciate your words of encouragement. It's just very frustrating because the professors don't tell you what they want from projects. They give you unclear directions and when you go into the text book, that doesn't help either (not trying to make excuses) So all this time I am trying my best and I don't know if I am doing it right, doing it wrong, am I putting too much detail or too little detail etc... So those are the things that frustrate me. One time I asked a professor for help I went to his office and he yelled at me because I was taking notes while he was talking! Thanks again for your reply! Have a great day!
Terry

 

[BakeMan]

Well tgr430,

That's pretty much my day in a nutshell. Unclear and imprecise user specifications coupled with a boss that doesn't give good directions and gets offensive when asked to clarify. I think they are doing a good job of preparing you for what most jobs are like.

Just my 2 cents.

BAKEMAN