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Please, How do I mix HTML in the body of an email message 5
- Thread starter ejgarcia
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WizyWyg,
Can you explain to me the difference between showing the link to a page or including HTML in an e-mail? Either way code can be executed, but in an e-mail a lot more is likely to be filtered so you are actually more safe than visiting a url so your argument is useless.
You know none of the background issues here, you don't know if the user is asked what format to receive the e-mail or not. If this was a potential risk situation then I would see your point but HTML e-mail? Do you actually understand why clients allow HTML e-mail?
ejgarcia
Are you trying to send the e-mail using a server-side language or are you trying to do this using outlook or similar?
Hope this helps
Wullie
The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change.
The leader adjusts the sails. - John Maxwell
Can you explain to me the difference between showing the link to a page or including HTML in an e-mail? Either way code can be executed, but in an e-mail a lot more is likely to be filtered so you are actually more safe than visiting a url so your argument is useless.
You know none of the background issues here, you don't know if the user is asked what format to receive the e-mail or not. If this was a potential risk situation then I would see your point but HTML e-mail? Do you actually understand why clients allow HTML e-mail?
ejgarcia
Are you trying to send the e-mail using a server-side language or are you trying to do this using outlook or similar?
Hope this helps
Wullie
The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change.
The leader adjusts the sails. - John Maxwell
WyziWyg
I am sure many horse owners said that tracks were made for horses and not cars. They shouldn't be used.
But they were.... It's called progress.
Sure Email is a text medium. So is HTML, but it can do more.
The comments made above were exactly what I thought when I read your replies.
ejgarcia
If you DO create HTML mails, be sure to add a pure text section too that gives the same info without the "glitz".
I normally put this in a commented out section at the top of the HTML then put lots of blank lines in the code before the actual HTML content. That way the non HTML user who gets a load of code in their mail window will still be able to read the message.
For sending the mail... An easy option is to use something like bCentral ( They offer services to small business, including email and list management. The site belongs to Microsoft, and I have found it to be pretty good on the whole.
If you use Outlook you can create Stationery which is basically an HTML document. I don't often do this though as I find the tracking at bCentral to be useful for my clients.
I am sure many horse owners said that tracks were made for horses and not cars. They shouldn't be used.
But they were.... It's called progress.
Sure Email is a text medium. So is HTML, but it can do more.
The comments made above were exactly what I thought when I read your replies.
ejgarcia
If you DO create HTML mails, be sure to add a pure text section too that gives the same info without the "glitz".
I normally put this in a commented out section at the top of the HTML then put lots of blank lines in the code before the actual HTML content. That way the non HTML user who gets a load of code in their mail window will still be able to read the message.
For sending the mail... An easy option is to use something like bCentral ( They offer services to small business, including email and list management. The site belongs to Microsoft, and I have found it to be pretty good on the whole.
If you use Outlook you can create Stationery which is basically an HTML document. I don't often do this though as I find the tracking at bCentral to be useful for my clients.
Wullie (Programmer) Sep 24, 2003
Can you explain to me the difference between showing the link to a page or including HTML in an e-mail? Either way code can be executed, but in an e-mail a lot more is likely to be filtered so you are actually more safe than visiting a url so your argument is useless.
A link is just a normal type of thing.
I format my newsletters in Plain text and if someone wants to see all the Pics, they can click on the link to get the graphical version.
My plain text email sent out to users is 2 kb. And html email is 24 kb. When I have users that pay per minute to be online on a dial-up connectin in Europe, they rather download a 2 kb message telling them to the point < hey this is new > than see 20 graphics trying to download to see the same thing.
Now take 2 kb and times that by 5,000 subscribers. How much data has now been processed by your server?
Now, take the 24kb email and times that by 5,000 subscribers. Which sounds better to you when you are being charged for bandwidth?
Now imagine a newsletter list with 10,000 subscribers; 15,000; 100,000 .
Dont need to know. HE should know that there are many users who do not have mail readers that process HTML. PINE for instance. Many users are still using PINE to read email. My university still uses pine because of all the troubles that students were causing with HTML enabled mail readers.
Always design for the lowest commond denominator. EVEN if 1% of your subscribers use a text based email program, then YOU should scrap all plans for HTML email
In fact, on my server, all HTML email are rednered into Plain text when received. With web bugs, image tracking, cookies and crap embeded into html emails, you are never "safe" from prying eyes. I dont want someone to know when I opened or read my email.
Blame Microsoft. In fact there are many people who are suggesting to MS to get rid of HTML rendering in their outlook programs because it opens the application up to potential security risk. You have heard of Melissa, SWEN, SOBIG and other viruses right? What do they do? Hijack your address book in Outlook applications.
My university has disallowed the use of Outlook/Outlook Express and Eudora as well as Netscape Mail on their lab computers because of the potential for virus and other risks.
Email is a PLAIN text medium.
HTML is for the web.
Can you explain to me the difference between showing the link to a page or including HTML in an e-mail? Either way code can be executed, but in an e-mail a lot more is likely to be filtered so you are actually more safe than visiting a url so your argument is useless.
A link is just a normal type of thing.
I format my newsletters in Plain text and if someone wants to see all the Pics, they can click on the link to get the graphical version.
My plain text email sent out to users is 2 kb. And html email is 24 kb. When I have users that pay per minute to be online on a dial-up connectin in Europe, they rather download a 2 kb message telling them to the point < hey this is new > than see 20 graphics trying to download to see the same thing.
Now take 2 kb and times that by 5,000 subscribers. How much data has now been processed by your server?
Now, take the 24kb email and times that by 5,000 subscribers. Which sounds better to you when you are being charged for bandwidth?
Now imagine a newsletter list with 10,000 subscribers; 15,000; 100,000 .
Dont need to know. HE should know that there are many users who do not have mail readers that process HTML. PINE for instance. Many users are still using PINE to read email. My university still uses pine because of all the troubles that students were causing with HTML enabled mail readers.
Always design for the lowest commond denominator. EVEN if 1% of your subscribers use a text based email program, then YOU should scrap all plans for HTML email
In fact, on my server, all HTML email are rednered into Plain text when received. With web bugs, image tracking, cookies and crap embeded into html emails, you are never "safe" from prying eyes. I dont want someone to know when I opened or read my email.
Blame Microsoft. In fact there are many people who are suggesting to MS to get rid of HTML rendering in their outlook programs because it opens the application up to potential security risk. You have heard of Melissa, SWEN, SOBIG and other viruses right? What do they do? Hijack your address book in Outlook applications.
My university has disallowed the use of Outlook/Outlook Express and Eudora as well as Netscape Mail on their lab computers because of the potential for virus and other risks.
Email is a PLAIN text medium.
HTML is for the web.
Foamcow (Programmer) Sep 24, 2003
WyziWyg
I am sure many horse owners said that tracks were made for horses and not cars. They shouldn't be used.
But they were.... It's called progress.
Sure Email is a text medium. So is HTML, but it can do more.
The comments made above were exactly what I thought when I read your replies.
IF you want html, do it on the web where YOU"RE not taking up MY space, and MY TIME to download it.
For a 24 kb email message in html, i could have receieved 12 other email messages that downloaded in 1 second vs 15 min.
Think about that. YOUR Html email TAKES up space IN MY inbox that I PAY $$$ per month for. And because of Spam/HTML EMAIL, I have to pay an extra $5 just to handle it.
There are many places that still charge per minute for dial-up connections ( Japan, most of Europe ) and what about the weary traveler connecting through their laptop cell phone. They are being charged per minute for that call, and then have to wait to download their emails....
So what if HTML can do more; IT also has more security risks. All html email on my server are rendered to plain text. I dont care if you have a nice graphic of your grandmother hugging the kids, they become attachements to the message.
The risks are far more detrimental than to satisfy the the "wishes" of the few.
WyziWyg
I am sure many horse owners said that tracks were made for horses and not cars. They shouldn't be used.
But they were.... It's called progress.
Sure Email is a text medium. So is HTML, but it can do more.
The comments made above were exactly what I thought when I read your replies.
IF you want html, do it on the web where YOU"RE not taking up MY space, and MY TIME to download it.
For a 24 kb email message in html, i could have receieved 12 other email messages that downloaded in 1 second vs 15 min.
Think about that. YOUR Html email TAKES up space IN MY inbox that I PAY $$$ per month for. And because of Spam/HTML EMAIL, I have to pay an extra $5 just to handle it.
There are many places that still charge per minute for dial-up connections ( Japan, most of Europe ) and what about the weary traveler connecting through their laptop cell phone. They are being charged per minute for that call, and then have to wait to download their emails....
So what if HTML can do more; IT also has more security risks. All html email on my server are rendered to plain text. I dont care if you have a nice graphic of your grandmother hugging the kids, they become attachements to the message.
The risks are far more detrimental than to satisfy the the "wishes" of the few.
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- #11
dwarfthrower
Programmer
WyziWyg, I have been reading your responses to this thread and it is starting to give me cause for concern. Your opinions on whether HTML email is a good or bad idea are just that - your opinions. They have absolutely no bearing on the original poster's question and you have made no attempt to answer the question.
You have, as Wullie pointed out, done nothing toward eliciting further information which might help you reach a more rounded opinion on this particular instance. But have instead made sweeping statements which seem to be solely based on what your university does. Have you considered the fact the the university probably uses Pine because it is unwilling to pay the licensing costs of Eudora or Outlook? With all due respect to your months of experience, there are literally hundreds of scenarios where HTML email is a legitimate option.
If you wish to have an ethical discussion of the pros and cons of HTML vs Plain Text email, take it to the ethics forum forum717. but be sure to smarten up your debating skills - the big boys over there hit pretty hard.
The question that was asked was a simple how-to. If you had provided a simple, factual answer and then supplemented that with advice on what to or not to do it wouldn't really be an issue. The technical forums should be a place for exchanging technical information as a priority, personal opinions as a distant secondary issue. Posters should be able to receive information and use their own judgement as to how to use it, not a lecture. Hijacking a thread, assuming the moral high ground and turning it into a right vs wrong pissing match is a sure way to get the entire thread deleted, depriving the next person who wants factual information about HTML email the means by which to access it without posting yet another thread on the topic.
Never be afraid to share your dreams with the world.
There's nothing the world loves more than the taste of really sweet dreams.
You have, as Wullie pointed out, done nothing toward eliciting further information which might help you reach a more rounded opinion on this particular instance. But have instead made sweeping statements which seem to be solely based on what your university does. Have you considered the fact the the university probably uses Pine because it is unwilling to pay the licensing costs of Eudora or Outlook? With all due respect to your months of experience, there are literally hundreds of scenarios where HTML email is a legitimate option.
If you wish to have an ethical discussion of the pros and cons of HTML vs Plain Text email, take it to the ethics forum forum717. but be sure to smarten up your debating skills - the big boys over there hit pretty hard.
The question that was asked was a simple how-to. If you had provided a simple, factual answer and then supplemented that with advice on what to or not to do it wouldn't really be an issue. The technical forums should be a place for exchanging technical information as a priority, personal opinions as a distant secondary issue. Posters should be able to receive information and use their own judgement as to how to use it, not a lecture. Hijacking a thread, assuming the moral high ground and turning it into a right vs wrong pissing match is a sure way to get the entire thread deleted, depriving the next person who wants factual information about HTML email the means by which to access it without posting yet another thread on the topic.
Never be afraid to share your dreams with the world.
There's nothing the world loves more than the taste of really sweet dreams.
ejgarcia,
If you're mailing to a large group, I found it a lot easier to send "HTML" email by using commercial software such as GroupMail. You just create you HTML page as normal and the program does the rest.
Personally, I don't care one way or the other whether email is text or HTML. I did have one major problem last year with an email campaign - about 1/3 of the email addresses were to AOL users and AOL really makes their users jump through hoops to view email with any graphics on it. The average user probably wouldn't have a clue how to change their settings. Maybe AOL has fixed this since then but it was really embarrasing as far as a marketing campaign went. Almost all of the AOL users (about 8,000) couldn't see the graphics on our email! After that, we sent text based emails with links to a web page.
There's always a better way. The fun is trying to find it!
If you're mailing to a large group, I found it a lot easier to send "HTML" email by using commercial software such as GroupMail. You just create you HTML page as normal and the program does the rest.
Personally, I don't care one way or the other whether email is text or HTML. I did have one major problem last year with an email campaign - about 1/3 of the email addresses were to AOL users and AOL really makes their users jump through hoops to view email with any graphics on it. The average user probably wouldn't have a clue how to change their settings. Maybe AOL has fixed this since then but it was really embarrasing as far as a marketing campaign went. Almost all of the AOL users (about 8,000) couldn't see the graphics on our email! After that, we sent text based emails with links to a web page.
There's always a better way. The fun is trying to find it!
The simple answer is KEEP IT OUT OF EMAIL.
I dont care what my debating skills are like and if you dont agree , then whatever HTML email you send to my users on MY server will be rendered as Plain text and all that "hard work" only wasted YOUR bandwidth and time to do.
With more SCHOOLS dumping html rendering email clients in favor of protecting their network, its something OF concern to the generaly public.
AOL has rendered HTML emails useless because of the potential for security risks.
What is so hard about doing a plain text email? My ISP does it for their newsletters and provides a LINK to a grhpical version on their website. My webhost provider does the same as well. Its a lot easier to read as well.
The point is, YOU are not intruding on someone elses space and their costs. Just think of it that for every 1kb of email you send someone, you are costing them 1 cent(time and in allocated space). Send an HTML email that 24 kb, you can cost someone 24 cents and that much space is lost in their inbox.
This is the same reason spam is thoroughly hated. And there are many sysadmins and mail administrators that are filtering out HTML emails altogether. So Its not only MY opinion, its and opinion that is shared by many on the net.
I dont care what my debating skills are like and if you dont agree , then whatever HTML email you send to my users on MY server will be rendered as Plain text and all that "hard work" only wasted YOUR bandwidth and time to do.
With more SCHOOLS dumping html rendering email clients in favor of protecting their network, its something OF concern to the generaly public.
AOL has rendered HTML emails useless because of the potential for security risks.
What is so hard about doing a plain text email? My ISP does it for their newsletters and provides a LINK to a grhpical version on their website. My webhost provider does the same as well. Its a lot easier to read as well.
The point is, YOU are not intruding on someone elses space and their costs. Just think of it that for every 1kb of email you send someone, you are costing them 1 cent(time and in allocated space). Send an HTML email that 24 kb, you can cost someone 24 cents and that much space is lost in their inbox.
This is the same reason spam is thoroughly hated. And there are many sysadmins and mail administrators that are filtering out HTML emails altogether. So Its not only MY opinion, its and opinion that is shared by many on the net.
dwarfthrower
Programmer
To summarise:
Your opinions on the relative merits of email formats are off topic and completely irrelevant to the question.
There is an entire forum dedicated to the discussion of ethics in I.T. Funnily enough, it's called the "Information Technology Ethics in the Workplace" forum and is precisely where you should continue this little rant of yours. Forum717
There are a large number of situations where the delivery of HTML email is both legitimate and useful. You have made absolutely no attempt to ascertain the details of this particular circumstance and are therefore in absolutely no position to pass judgement. The simple fact that ejgarcia mentioned it was a company requirement should have been enough for you to realise it was out of his/her control.
Never be afraid to share your dreams with the world.
There's nothing the world loves more than the taste of really sweet dreams.
Dont need to know. HE should know that there are many users who do not have mail readers that process HTML. PINE for instance. Many users are still using PINE to read email. My university still uses pine because of all the troubles that students were causing with HTML enabled mail readers.
As I have said previously and you seemed to ignore, these people may have asked to receive e-mails from this site in HTML format.
I personally have at least 1 site running that asks the user what format they want to receive an e-mail in when they signup and at any time they can change this preference. Are you saying that I shouldn't give them this option?
FYI, 87% of subscribers asked to receive HTML e-mails. Exactly what were you saying about the minority?
Think about it, if the client wants the e-mails in HTML format, who are you to tell the company not to do it?
With more SCHOOLS dumping html rendering email clients in favor of protecting their network, its something OF concern to the generaly public.
How many schools prevent you from installing a program that you want to download from the net? Does this mean that software should stop being made available for downloading?
What about the workplaces that disallow internet surfing? should we just get rid of the Internet because of this?
Don't tell me that because a school disallows something then we should all follow.
Also, just to make your argument more useless, have you even heard of multipart messages?
Hope this helps
Wullie
The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change.
The leader adjusts the sails. - John Maxwell
Surprised you guys let this one slip by...
"EVEN if 1% of your subscribers use a text based email program, then YOU should scrap all plans for HTML email"
So do you use CSS on your web pages? Javascript? Colour? Images? I expect that there are 1% of visitors unable to deal with each of those, does that mean we should "scrap all plans" to use them?
I too prefer to send/receive mail in text format, but provided ejgarcia's targets have opted to get HTML mails from him/her then it's not for us to tell him/her not to send them. Let the customer decide!
-- Chris Hunt
"EVEN if 1% of your subscribers use a text based email program, then YOU should scrap all plans for HTML email"
So do you use CSS on your web pages? Javascript? Colour? Images? I expect that there are 1% of visitors unable to deal with each of those, does that mean we should "scrap all plans" to use them?
I too prefer to send/receive mail in text format, but provided ejgarcia's targets have opted to get HTML mails from him/her then it's not for us to tell him/her not to send them. Let the customer decide!
-- Chris Hunt
![[rofl]](/data/assets/smilies/rofl.gif "[rofl] [rofl]")
ChrisHirst
IS-IT--Management
It's a bit difficult to answer the question as we don't know what program ejgarcia is using to send the emails.
Chris.
Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
Chris.
Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
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