PC not booting, tried CMOS reset, reseat etc... 3

[wwwigz]

Hi, I'm running an Athlon 1500 on an ABIT KR7A-Raid (but not using raid drives) - I have 1GB DDR2, a Maxtor ATA133 120G (Master) and a Maxtor ATA133 80GB (Slave) I have a Geforce 6400 256MB video card, but no sound card at the mo.

The PC has been running a version of XP-Pro (SP3) and has been fully updated, running very stable for months.

Last night I was doing some film scanning and processing using CS2, and things got very slow. I realised that I'd not set the virtual Memory so decided to do a few other small tweaks while I was setting the Virtual Memory.

I used a selection of tweaks from this site:

http://www.techbargains.com/hottips/hottip12/index.cfm

I did the following:

- Reduced the screen resolution.
- Set the Unload DLL value to 1
- set Virtual Memory to 1800 (I have 1GB DDR2 2x512MB)
(RAM Memory tweaks)
- Disabled Page Executive
- Set system Cache Boost to 1
- I did NOT change I/O performance
- I also shortened the menu delay

I only mention the (what I think are) irrelevant tweaks becasue I'm trying to give you very helpful people the best picture I can!

I went into BIOS, and turned off the RAID (The one that searches for RAID devices at startup)

When I rebooted, nothing... well almost nothing, the Pc turns on, there is one beep, the CD-Rom & HDD's are accessed
and then the HDD lights go out.
The monitor initially turns on, but stays in 'standby' mode.

I tried a boot with minimal hardware, still nothing.
I have cleaned & reseated Video card and Memory sticks - still nothing.
I reluctantly reset the BIOS with the jumper short - nothing.
I also (even more reluctantly!) took out the CMOS battery and replaced it (not with new, but original battery) - This worked!
Well, kinda... it got me to windows (after a "checksum Error - loading defaluts" message at DOS boot screen)
windows & system tray loaded fully, but I right-clicked on My computer, it highlighted it, but nothing...
I COULD click on the systems tray icons, and I COULD use the StartBar.
BUT - after a minute or so of being booted & loaded, the Pc just hung...

I rebooted, and now it wont even respond to replacing the CMOS battery =(

Am I doing anything wrong?
Why is the PC eventually hanging when it does eventually load?
How can I get into safe mode (to reset the tweaks I did - if needed) when it wont even get past POST?

Help!

I have not tweaked my PC blindly, I hope I know what I'm doing.... but here, I obviously do not!

Any help greatly appreciated.

 

[cdogg]

I hate to say it, but I don't think your problem is a Windows one. If you detach the hard drives and still can't get into the BIOS, then the changes you made in the registry are irrelevant. This is a POST problem. You have an issue with your CPU, PSU, motherboard, video card or RAM.

Now, make sure you are unplugging the PC from the wall outlet and holding the power button down for a few seconds to drain the capacitors on the motherboard. Do this before you take the CMOS battery out. Leave it out for at least a minute before reseating it.


I noticed that you are doing some work in CS2, so this might give you the perfect excuse to upgrade the hardware instead of spending any money on spare parts...

~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Einstein
[tab][navy]For posting policies, click [/navy]here.

 

[wwwigz]

Hi cdogg, thanks for the response.

I detached the HDDs, but nothing changes... infact, I can't even hear the POST beep anymore.
I have also tried each RAM stick on it's own, and no change.
I thoroughly cleaned and reseated the video card.

I have follwed your instruction when it comes to restting the CMOS battery....again, nothing.

I would LOVE to upgrade - but I really do not have any funds to do that.
I have very low cashflow, and this PC (The Processor, Mobo & video card) was a purchase of a friends, who like me, knows enough about PC's to make them run properly, so can be fairly sure there has never been any abuse to the system, and as I said, it's been running fine for the past few months.

Next, step - Remove, clean and reseat the Processor?

 

[tlcscousin]

I have never used that board but looking at photos of the motherboard layout it shows 4 IDE slots. Two are RAID only from the looks of it try moving the IDE cables to the yellow IDE ports on the board (if they were in the other ones).

 

[tlcscousin]

As a side note have you tried just entering the BIOS and renable raid?

 

[wwwigz]

Yes, they are in the other (Non-Raid) IDE slots.
I'll give it a go but if I'm not gonna use RAId on my HDDs, then will it actually work? will it make any difference?

And yes, I did renable the RAID when I was last able to get into BIOS.

But as it stands, I still cannot get into BIOS with the various minimal hardware setups available to me.

I'll try swapping the IDE slots over, and post back what happens

Thank you

 

[wwwigz]

Hmmm, still nothing happening.
I do hear the beep though, almost immediately after pressing the on button.
The disks are accessed, and run, eventually they stop being accessed after maybe a minute or so... ,whether on the RAID IDEs(IDE3&4) or the others (IDE1&2)

I've also tried resetting the CMOS again, both by jumper and removing the battery.

I also cleaned the heat sink properly...

Am almost at a loss... maybe I try a diff video card?

 

[BadBigBen]

Yes, try another gfx-card, or reseat the old one, slight offset can cause the symptoms described...

also did you unplug the IDE cables at the mainboard? some controllers detect plugged in cables, and can mess up the POST order...



Ben

"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."

 

[wwwigz]

Tried replacing the Geforce 6400/256MB with a GeForce 4000/64MB...and still nothing.
Yes, I did unplug the cables from the mainboard when I was trying to setup without a HDD.
I tried them in the the IDE 3&4 but nothing, and have plugged them back into IDE 1&2.

 

[BadBigBen]

My next suggestion would be to try a different, known to work, PSU...

sometimes PSU die slowly, taking out a rail but leaving others fully functional... e.g. the 3.3v rail dies, but the 12v and 5v lines work and power the fans and drives, but the mainboard will not POST...

Ben

"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."

 

[cdogg]

If cleaning and reseating the CPU using a fresh application of thermal grease didn't help, the next thing I would do is go with a replacement power supply as Ben suggested. If that still fails to help, then you are faced with replacing the motherboard or CPU next. At this point, you are probably better off upgrading both unless you can get your hands on a dirt cheap spare for either one. This is exactly why I threw out the suggestion to upgrade in the first place. Unless you have free access to spare parts, it's hard to troubleshoot the problem without wasting money in the process.

I tried them in the the IDE 3&4 but nothing, and have plugged them back into IDE 1&2

By the way, I would keep those IDE cables unplugged until you can get the system to successfully POST.

~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Einstein
[tab][navy]For posting policies, click [/navy]here.

 

[kjv1611]

Frankly, it really sounds to me like the board and/or CPU is just kaput.

If your budget is really tight, you could just get a used mobo/cpu combo on eBay and be done with it. I once got a mobo/cpu/ram/vga combo (for a person with very limited funds) for $27 I think was the total cost - WITH shipping. It was a P4 with 64meg video card, and 512 SDRAM, I think.

--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[wwwigz]

Hi, I've had a good old think, and am probably gonna upgrade (thanks to a very kinds friend) even though I only upgraded a few months ago!
But, I'm not gonna give up on the Mobo. I have a friend who has 3/4 PC's hanging around doing nothing, so I may be able to get a working PSU out (and hey, maybe even a processor)
I (hopefully) get access to these bits tomorrow, so will post back here in next few days if I manage to get my system working again.

I will keep the IDE cables unplugged when trying to get system to work, thanks cdogg.

Hmm, so, upgrade.
I hope you dont mind me asking recommndations for what mobo/chip combo to go for?
I do a fair bit of heavy photo/graphics work, and lite gaming, also play music lots, and do some lite home recording too...don't need anything too flash, but prob have a budget of around £100-£150


What I'm really trying to ask, is (like the KR7A was a great board) - what is a great board at the moment? (maybe even a year or two old)

As I say, I obviously dont need 4-core processor support - or even duo-core, just something quick, 2-3Gig processor, (poss with RAID as I might get another 120GB Maxtor ATA133 and setup on RAID 1)
I've got a good 256MB GeForce 6400(4xAGP) video card, so don't need great onboard video. I have a decent ATX case, would like USB 2 onboard...
And not much else really...I think...
Any good deals around at mo?

Sorry! content has changed slightly since original post! but I WILL update if I manage to get the original working!
All help gratefully appreciated - Thank you =)

 

[kjv1611]

Well, if £150 or basically $230 is your max budget, you'll have to do some tinkering to get together something decent, but it can be done.

Now, if you really think you only need a single core CPU, you would probably just be as well to get a used computer off eBay or something.

And from what you are coming from, even an old P4 system sounds like it'll do you good enough. I would personally say do a system with AMD Athlon 64 X2 CPU and at least 1GB Ram... or if possible do a system with a Core 2 Duo setup, but it's unlikely to fit that all within your budget. Possible, but difficult.

On scratch and dent deals, I've seen some Core 2 systems with 2 and 3GB Ram, etc whole desktops go for as cheap as $150 and $200. I actually picked up an Acer like that myself to tinker with. It's practically in perfect condition, has 250 or 300GB hard drive, I forget, 3GB Ram, Intel Dual Core (Core architecture, just not Core 2 Duo), Vista Home Premium, DVD burner, Gigabit Lan, I think, with all sorts of front/top ports, even HDMI in the back... maybe even in the front, I forget. I got it for $203. The restore disks I got from Acer direct for $40.

But of course, that scratch and dent deal was from a big scratch 'n' dent seller on eBay in the states, and they offered free shipping. I don't know if you have any like that over in the UK, b/c I'm sure they wouldn't ship from TX/CA to the UK for free!

Anyhow, even that little Acer would blow away what you've been using, I think. If I rememmber, it has a 2.2Ghz CPU

At a quick look at ebay UK, I didn't see any of the exact model I got. The one I got was the AM540, and I must say it's really nice. The particular one I got does not have blue ray, and uses onboard graphics. I REALLY like all the connection options. For a low-power PC, I've actually been quite impressed.

The only negative I've seen, however, is that Acer seems (my opinion based on real world usage and helping others) they use cheaper hardware, and their driver support is horrible. I've seen this twice now: go to Acer website for a specific computer, and get the driver list for that model. Then try to install the drivers they recommend - in my attempts, their own drivers did not work! Only the original disk worked... or else I had to find the drivers from other means, which I have done with one.

Anyhow, here is one that I would think would be an excellent choice:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Acer-L3600-De...14&_trkparms=72:1300|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318

And you could either turn off many of the Vista "features" and/or upgrade the RAM, still maybe within your budget.

It's not just that the Core 2 series is dual core. Even if it ran on a single core, that thing would outrun the past single core CPUs. The Intel Core series of CPUS have basically flattened everything else before.

If you want to do any serious photo editing, you'll see a difference. If your'e editing audio, you'll see a difference for sure. If you're editing video, well, there's just no comparison. Gaming? Same deal. Power usage? They're MUCH more efficient.

Just wanted to mention the negative about Acer, by the way. Once it's installed, it seems to run really well. It runs quiet and cool, best I can tell. The one I saw over in the UK being a small form factor might be a little more cramped, and therefore run hotter and louder, but you'd just have to read some reviews online to find out.

--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[wwwigz]

Very interesting kjv, thanks for the post.

So, If I go for either a pentium 4, an Athlon 64 x2, or an Intel 'Core' processor, then that would be a good start yea?

I'd really wanna get as fast a processor as I can, anything between 2 and 3Ghz

I have 1Gb (2x512)DDR memory so would need to find a mobo that takes the higher processor, AND the DDR.

Is it foolish of me to think I could get a 2-3Ghz CPU with a mobo that supports DDR2? ..thinking that, I wouldn't be able to afford to buy new DDR2 memory, when I have 1Gb of working DDR memory here.

Looking at the Acer you pointed to, it looks good yes, but with the smaller form factor (I'd eventually like to plug in old HDDs (for data tranfer to newer drives) and the possible probs with expansion, along with a processing power of only 1.6Ghz (Only .1 more powerful than the Athlon 1.5Ghz I have here, which may not have gone)... I'm hearing what you're saying, but do you not think I'd be able to get an ATX board witha faster processor for less than the £100 quoted for that acer?

I'm looking at lots of 'pulled' systems (CPU, Mobo and in some cases Ram and even PSU) on eBay UK, and they come in at well under £100
Aslong as I research the features of each mobo, I should be able to find a decent deal for lots less than I intend to spend, yea?

I'd like to ask UK people if they can reccomend a hardware site (not eBay) to look for good reconditioned/pulled systems/even new (old) systems - that are reputable, and maybe even offer some sort of warranty?

 

[kjv1611]

==>I'd really wanna get as fast a processor as I can, anything between 2 and 3Ghz

You need to understand that just pure Gigahertz no longer gives you the story on the performance of a processor.

For example, I have a laptop with a Core 2 Duo mobile processor rated at 1.6 Ghz.

That laptop runs circles around a desktop that I've used that has an Intel Pentium 4D (dual core pentium 4).

So, take that as just one example as to why you ought to go ahead and go Core 2 whatever if at all possible. Next closest thing will be the X2 series from AMD.

==>Is it foolish of me to think...
If you are wanting to buy the individual components, you're going to have a hard time staying within your budget. That's why I was recommending one of the scratch and dent units or else a used tower that might go cheap.

Here are some examples:
Generally, motherboards that support Core 2 CPUs are running at $100 to $300 (£65 to £195)
The Core 2 CPUs run at least $100 (£65), maybe $50 (£32.5) to $80 (£52)if you happen to find a good deal somewhere.
RAM - nowadays, it's so cheap, you can get a 2GB kit easily under $50 or £32.5

By the time you put all that together, you'll be over your budget. Wheras you could find one of these scratch 'n' dent deals, and then just upgrade the RAM, maybe, and have a screaming computer compared to what you did have.

I can't tell you HOW much faster my system runs on audio editing now. I mean it's not even close.

Before, I had an Athlon XP 3200+ system with 2GB DDR Ram, high-end graphics, Audigy 2 sound card, 2 Raptors in RAID 0, 3 SATA hard drives in a RAID 3 (similar to RAID 5, but if done right, it's faster)..

Now, I have the Raptors as single drives, mainly just use one, don't have my storage RAID setup any longer, have a newer but lower end video card, an x-fi sound card. I have 2GB DDR2 800 Ram, and an E6750 Core 2 Duo CPU running at 2.7Ghz if I remember correctly on an Abit motherboard.

I initially was finishing my audio editing literally at least in less than half the time with the RAID configurations with the older CPU, etc.

It used to take me at least 15 to 25 minutes to let a certain batch process run - same software. After the upgrade, I literally heard it finish typically in less than 5 minutes!

Now I'm doing the audio differently, it's more complex, and the time has increased. On my old hardware setup, I would have just given up doing what I'm doing now.

The newer software is taking much more advantage than you would realize from multiple cores nowadays.

I mean, I really just REALLY can't tell you enough how badly you need an upgrade. If you really want to do picture stuff and audio stuff and have time to spare, then go Core 2 something.

Your Athlon 1500 Cannot come CLOSE to what the Core 2 line-up does, even just the "Intel Dual Core" CPUS - low-end Core lineup.

By the way, the motherboard I'm currently using is the Abit AB-9 Pro. It sells for about $70 on eBay from at least one seller right now. But it still costs over $100 if you can find it retail. Abit is also going out of the mobo business again, in case you were not aware of that - just something to think about.

I'm super happy with my setup. I've got 9 SATA 2 connections on board, and one external SATA connections. I just LOVE it!

If you want to try and use all your current hardware, just see if you can find a cpu/mobo combo used on eBay that has an Intel Dual Core, or Core Duo/Core 2Duo CPU. You just might find something within your budget, and you'll have the 1GB ram to start with... if the mobo supports DDR ram. However, if you can afford the extra £10 to £30, just buy new RAM. It's rediculously cheap nowadays.

Don't worry about CPU power for plugging up additional hard drives. All you'll need to be sure of is that you've got the connections. New motherboards mostly only have 1 IDE connection anymore, b/c practically all new hard drives and optical drives are SATA 2 compatible instead. It's a MUCH better interface. For old drives, if you're just doing it temporarily, you can always try an external adapter.

Here's one that I have that works well:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812156102

Again, these adapters are only good options when you are just temporarily connecting hard drives. There are also various docks, but the IDE interface is getting rarer and rarer every time I look. It's best to just move on to all SATA as you can. That's why one of the IDE to USB adapters works out well if you're just doing quick transfers/backups.

Remember, the 1.6Ghz CPU in a Core 2 series is TONS faster than your Athlon 1500. There is NO comparison at all. It's like trying to compare a stock Ford Pinto to a stock brand new Lambroghinni! They don't belong in the same league!

--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[kjv1611]

Specific examples on the difference between my laptop with mobile 1.6Ghz Core 2 Duo vs the Desktop with the 3.2 Ghz P4C processor:

Laptop = Toshiba U205-S5057
Core 2 Duo 1.6Ghz
2GB DDR-2 677 Notebook Ram (upgraded from slower 1GB)
7200 RPM 200GB laptop hard drive - Seagate Momentus - another upgraded - installed was a 160GB 5400 RPM Hitachi
onboard graphics

Desktop = Dell Dimension 9100
Pentium 4D CPU at 3.2 GHz
2GB DDR-2 800 Desktop SDRAM
7200 RPM 250GB desktop hard drive - or may have been 160gb, I forget.
ATI PCI-X low-end graphics card


"Capturing" and Previewing HDV Video (high def video strait from a Canon HV20 via firewire:
Desktop COULD NOT preview the video, even with nothing else running.
Laptop could sometimes handle the preview EVEN in "low power" mode, while on battery which slows down the CPU. In high performance mode, the laptop handled it like a champ.

Editing video - I tried very successfully on the laptop. Didn't even attempt on the desktop, as I didn't want to torture myself that bad.

Editing audio - Have done on both. The laptop runs every piece usually a lot faster than the desktop. Can't say for sure on the specifics, as I've done little of my audio work on either. I have a separate "main" computer at home where I do the heavy lifting mostly. The other desktop was at our church, and my wife uses the laptop most of the time.

Photos - I've not messed with on the church desktop, but there wouldn't be as much of a noticeable difference as the others, as that is not AS CPU intensive, so long as you're not dealing with RAW images.

I'll hush now... maybe.

--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[wwwigz]

Hehe, I think you may have sold me on the core 2! (Even tho I keep peeking at the Athlon 64 x2, a tad cheaper!) - how about comparing a Core 2 with the Athlon 64 x2? Please =)

I've found a few core 2 Mobo/CPU bundles on eBay for just under £100 to way beyond my budget, but from the £100-150 mark - there seem to be some affordable (and reliable) deals - it's just ratting out the mobos that really dont have the functionality I need/want.

So, the hunt goes on.

Oh, yea, a word about the power supply from the original system that went down?
I tried it on another mobo, and it boots that all the way.... just a shame its a piddly 800Mhz!
Anyhow, the power supply (500W ATX) is fine - so it must either be the mobo (KR7A) or the chip (Athlon 1500)

Either way, I still need that mobo/chip (and wishing DDR2!) combo for around £100.

I wont be capturing or editing video (well, perhaps a little bit of Mpeg off the compact digi)
I also won't be dealing in RAW images just yet, although I have had a look at some RAW.... I just don't have the decent DSLR to get the RAW with...so RAW processing is not a reality at the mo, BUT I do have a stack of old negatives that I am scanning in on an Epson V500, and speed IS of the essence (not to sacrifice scan quality)

So, the consensus is: "Get a CoreDuo2 if I possibly can"
Nuff said...and:

Please...go one, finding your posts extremly de-mistifying, interesting, and informative...carry on!

 

[wwwigz]

Hmm, this looks good, has SATA & IDE (UDMA66 support for the ATA133 HDs I have), comes with 4GBDDR2, 2.66Ghz Core 2 Duo, PCI2.2 slots & 2 x PCI-Ex16 slots.
Great for expansion...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ASUS-Commando...3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66:2|65:1|39:1|240:1318

I might bid up to and around £100.... any think this would be a bad idea?

 

[wwwigz]

Or this? - Damn cheap!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MSI-Motherbor...14&_trkparms=72:1300|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318