Overclocking my q9450 rig :) 2

[Leozack]

Not sure how many of you are into the OC stuff but here's a shout. I've just bought a new pile of kit to build a new rig, consisting of a q9450 cpu and a radeon 4870 gpu to handle the eyecandy, combined with 4g of high bandwidth ram and vista ultimate 64bit.

The first OC (all on air) was painless, from 333 fsb to 400. Everything fine, benches fine, runs fine. Same again with 450 and even 475. Staggering really, this was now running at 3.8g instead of 2.6g! At 485 I can boot to windows and operate stably but it failed running crysis so I'm retesting now at 480.

But my questions were more about the cpu voltage etc. I'm using an ASUS PQ5 deluxe mobo to get the most out of everything. I had left the voltages set to auto (except ram set to 2.1 which it's spec'd for) but I found the cpu had been auto set to 1.39 at 1 point so I've now set cpu voltage to manual and put it at 1.36 which is the highest rating given by intel I can find.

I'm curious though if I'd be better leaving it on auto - so that when the downstepping occurs to underclock it while it's not being used fully, it will (possibly) lower the cpu voltage too ather than keep it maxed at 1.36. But maybe it doesn't change dynamically so might aswell leave it at 1.36? I'm not sure about it all as I've never needed to tweak voltage to maximise OC'ing before, even on this P4c 2.4g to run at 3g back in the day

My friend suggested loosening the ram timings or setting ram voltage to 2.2 might stabilise it at the top end of 4xx fsb? I dunno, all thoughts/comments welcome, it'd be nice to just hit 4g and be done with it, though 3.8g quad on air with 3x'C under load and 1-1.3k quiet fan rpm is already an achievement

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Leozack

MakeUniverse($infinity,1,42);

 

[wahnula]

Leozack,

Have you tried the Asus overclocking utility in the BIOS? I've found it to be very stable and safe, it juices the right components just enough the get a little extra performance without risking smoking silicon.

Most members. like myself, are into stability and reliability, and if we do OC, we keep it realistic. Trying to get 3.8 out of a 2.6 CPU is a little dangerous. You've spent a lot of money on parts, and I'd hate to see those parts get fried due to what an Internet post tells you to do.

This is not really an overclocking forum, we're more about keeping things alive and troubleshooting them when they break. That said, there ARE plenty of forums devoted to overclocking and you might do better there.

Tony

Users helping Users...

 

[Leozack]

Thanks Tony I just thought I'd give it a shout here n see who was interested. I'm not for running at bleeding edge usually but it's good to get it there and test it before settling back down some for the longer haul, hence I don't normally change any voltages etc. These components were handpicked for power/stability/noise/overclockability/pricepoint though so it should be ok and 3.8g isn't that dangerous since this is still all cooled with 120m fans.
The ASUS bios for the P5Q deluxe is pretty nice, but it has more than I would want to tweak in it as usual for their enthusiast boards - hence I'm not sure exactly where to leave it. I'll look around for good forums to post in I guess

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Leozack

MakeUniverse($infinity,1,42);

 

[wahnula]

Leozack,

Just the opposite, in Asus BIOS there is a setting that is pretty safe, I forget what it's called and I'm not in front of my Asus board right now, but it lets you overclock 10%, 20%, 25% etc. It handles all the incremental settings and that makes it VERY easy to revert to a previous setting without logging your every change. I use it to safely get an extra 20% out of my 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo E6600, getting it up to 2.88GHz without a degree of change in the system temps & noise. Check it out.

Tony

Users helping Users...

 

[pete1427]

First are you using the Crysis "Can Run It" test to
determine that your system is not going to run the Crysis
game, or have you actually tried to run Crysis and had a failure?
The "Can You Run It" has issues with home-built systems
and will report that you can not run Crysis--It failed
2 of my home-built systems and a custom gaming notebook.
I opted to try it and it ran fine without over-clocking
on 2 AMD X2-6000 systems and the gaming notebook in
spite of the failure on "Can You Run It".
I contacted the firm that supplies the test and I
showed them my system specifications readouts and
they now are aware of the problems with home-built
multicore systems.
My systems in question should be slower than
your 4 core system and they run Crysis just fine.
One of my dual core systems is capable of DX-10 (8800GT)
the other two dual core systems run DX-09c(one DX-09c unit
uses 2/g-force 7950s- notebook uses the g-force go/7900
---Your system should run Crysis using DX-10.
If are having a problem actually running Crysis with
your system that exceeds all of the system requirements
of the game then it is time to contact

http://www.EA.com

.
Your system should NOT require ANY over-clocking to
run Crysis
Crysis system requirements
CPU-OK
RAM-OK
HD-12GB or more unused space?
Video-OK(Direct-10 compatible)
Sound-should be good to go(Direct-9.0c compatible)

Pete/Technician-now retired
Nicknamed "Einstein" by former co-workers

 

[SimonDavies]

In all honesty I would head over to XS (

http://www.xtremesystems.org)

for more advice on OCing as they are into the OC scene something chronic (guys on there hold a lot of OC awards).

You don't mention what cpu cooler or case you're running or what version of the BIOS.

As far as stability goes, whenever I have had to worry about going that extra little bit I have always had to increase both the NB and SB voltages as well as ensuring the mb and cpu are kept cool enough.

I would say that the best thing to do is go to XS, have a nose around there and also pop on over to the VIP forums at Asus for some advice on fine tuning the board settings.

Simon

The real world is not about exam scores, it's about ability.

 

[paparazi]

OK I'm going to be the boring old f......t and say that overclocking is not considered to be an appropriate subject on this professional forum.
Sorry guys....take this question to the gamers forums where they have a completely different agenda and reliability comes second to performance gain.
Martin

On wings like angels whispers sweet
my heart it feels a broken beat
Touched soul and hurt lay wounded deep
Brown eyes are lost afar and sleep

 

[Leozack]

lol tbh this was a month old now, I've not tried the ASUS or XS forums as I've left it idling fine at 3.6g.
As for as crysis goes - when I said it failed running it I meant it - whilst windows and maybe even benching with 3dmark worked, leaving my brother playing crysis yielded crashes/resets during play, hence me scaling it back down.

But since we're all too professional here to come home from unpaid overtime slaving on networks and enjoy an OC'd rig, I'll shutup

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Leozack

MakeUniverse($infinity,1,42);

 

[robmazco]

On overclocking...why do it? What does one get out of it?
Excluding the idea to push what you have just a pinch further, would I really see for example, my gaming performance really improve?
Give me 1 good reason to overclock beyond the geek side of it.

 

[SimonDavies]

@Paparazi: Sorry mate but I disagree, whilst I consider myself a professional I have nothing against OCing in the slightest, I also have to point out that it's very rare to actually find a gamer being one who overclocks as well, it generally happens to be the enthusiast who benches and he does it for the thrill, remarks like yours actually do come across as elitest and arrogant, something that I am sure you really didn't (hopefully) intend. So what if someone wants to overclock, it doesn't make them any less professional does it?

Simon

The real world is not about exam scores, it's about ability.

 

[Leozack]

You have to realise something about overclocking. Once again the IT industry parallels the automobile industry. Boys with money can buy a hot car and pimp it up wihtout knowing anything about mechanics, and they probably look stupid and are so loud they annoy everyone. But a retired guy can also finetune a classic car in his garage.

With PCs - you can overclock some things relatively easy, you can even buy preoverclocked stuff eg from overclockers. However - if you think overclockers are just gamers you'd be wrong. Some are, like me. That doesn't make me any less professional and infact there is a profession then OF overclocking.

But my point was people OC for various reasons. To be honest - one of the best reasons is being SMART. Why pay $1500 for a cpu when you can pay $350 and overclock it to the same performance level (without even using water cooling or even more extreme cooling)? Surely the fool is the one who buys his equipment and DOESN'T overclock it? I'm not suggesting you bleed your system dry or pump the voltages like an amateur and shorten the lifespan of the part, but simple safe overclocking within factory specified perameters can still yeild big performance increases, depending on how overclockable the parts in question is.

And yes robmazco - you CAN see decent performance gains. Just do some brosing on technical sites regarding stock benchmarks and overclocked benchmarks. eg

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/intel_q9450/6.htm

So it's not necessarily about playing the latest games or being a lad, it can also be about rendering that scene or crunching that db in 70% of the time it takes your competitors on the same hardware. If you want to buy something that can perform better but leave it at stock that's upto you - half the time parts are scaled down for retail simply to create multiple pricepoints in the market, and overclocking it can make your one the same as one costing more (or lots more). Respect the OC

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Leozack

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[robmazco]

thnx Leo, thats more like the answer I was looking for. Thanks for explaining to this boob who knows zero about it. But now I know much more than I did.
I honestly thought it was more of a 'look how I pimped my ride' rather than really getting a true performance boost.

 

[Leozack]

np rob, I'm lucky enough to have been in a tech savy group for many years and we often scheme together over things like a new pc rig for someone. OC'ing has ebcome just part of the standard. At 1 time all you had to do was draw a line in pencil on a certain athlon chip to make a connection to turn it into it's higher priced version. Another time you could bios flash an ati card to make it the same as it's higher priced cousin. Those are just examples of when a product is the same as differently priced cousins but scaled back deliberately to create multiple pricepoints. If it's possibly to undo this crippling of the product then you have a free overclock
Other times like the CPU I'm still using here it was a P4C 2.4G that was easily overclockable on air cooling to 3g, back when 3g was top spec. Naturally it cost a lot less than a 3g P4 did at the time

So yeah - you can up the voltages, stick on severe cooling (water cooling or even nitrogen cooling!) and go for those world records of Ghz, or you can stick neons all around your pc and turn it into a disco - but none of that has to come with the simple practice of handpicking your pc parts based on their ability to overclock (read lots of reviews etc and and checkout the benchmarks - and remember milage may vary - 1 persons chip will yeild better results on an OC than another persons same chip, that's just how they're made) and then taking some time to gently overclock your parts bit by bit, running benchmarks and collecting data, and eventually finding a sweet spot that's not bleeding it dry, yeilds good performance increases, and is stable enough to run under load without problems There is much satisfaction from that, a lot more than I'd get lowering my car's suspension and fitting a noisy muffler ;P

I guess there are 2 ways you can be smug - walking down the street with an expensive product that is great, or walking down the street with a cheaper product that thanks to you performs just as well as theirs or better

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Leozack

MakeUniverse($infinity,1,42);

 

[paparazi]

Is this the sign of the times? has the general ethos of TT changed? because something must have!
Gaming (unless this was specific to developement or professionally related and overclocking) have always been subjects regarded as inappropriate on this forum.
I am only suprised that other round table members haven't commented leaving me feeling rather stupid and sounding like an old stick in the mud.
The forums header says: INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR COMPUTER PROFESSIONALS
May be I'm missing something here or have things just moved on?
Martin

On wings like angels whispers sweet
my heart it feels a broken beat
Touched soul and hurt lay wounded deep
Brown eyes are lost afar and sleep

 

[Leozack]

To be fair martin, these forums have always maintained a high saturation of quality with not much junk around, which is good. But outside of the stressful workplace, everyone who posts has, probably, some form of life - and for many the 2 often overlap considerably. Thus - without checking the actual lists of forums, I don't know if there are really any community forums for non-work posts amongst the TT community, or forums for non-work IT interests, such as OC'ing or gaming or whatever. Hence I put my question in pc hardware general discussion, to see if anyone out there knew more about the OC stuff I didn't regarding the parts I was using. I wasn't asking what colour neons I should put in my pc in the middle of a c# forum

And for the record, to me reliability is the final sayso in any overclock - the sweet spot is where you have as much extra resources possible without any degradation to parts and running stably so that 4 years later you can still be using it, like the PC I'm using right now (which if not overclocked would be far less use). It's not geeky anymore to OC, it's just intelligent So I'm a computer professional talking about intelligent things I do! Hohum. But with all things IT, you can still geek it up

And I guess the only reason noone else has read this thread and joined you in naysaying such content is the thread title is pure and they can't even be bothered to read such nonsense ;D

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Leozack

MakeUniverse($infinity,1,42);

 

[pete1427]

Gentlemen,
Let us go back to the original problem---running
Crysis.
But first let me digress to 1973; I had rebuilt
a 1970 Honda 750(736cc) to 850cc and done many modifications
to the engine, and frame to 1/4 mile the machine.
It ran the 1/4 mile in 9.2 seconds @137mph.
The problem was that I lost the ability to
use the machine for daily pleasure and enjoyment of
riding as it couldn't corner worth a darn with a 12" wide
gum walled slick, plus the slightest application
of power would pull the front wheel off the ground.
I too have overclocked some of my computers in the
past, not for games, but for AutoCAD programs(more
demanding on system resources than MOST games).
Now when I build a computer, I build above
the expectations of system requirements of the
software that I may use on the system.
Leozack, I fear that you, like I in my younger
days have the need for speed, while loosing sight
of the fact you built the computer your enjoyment
your overclocking has cost you the stability
of the games and other more practical programs
that would have ran on your system as built.
Yes you now have a very fast unit, but it
will not run the programs that a computer
costing a lot less can run.

SMUG? Why feel that way if can not run the programs?
Your Overclocked computer is like my Overbuilt motorcycle:
very fast but not able to do what it was designed
to do.
By the way, I was involved with computers long
before the first desktop computer was built.
The IBM 360 series---I worked for IBM back then
so I am not a newby on the computer scene.


Pete/Technician-now retired
Nicknamed "Einstein" by former co-workers

 

[Leozack]

lol I don't get why people still think I can't run crysis - that was merely 1 part of the process I was describing, whereby I had left it unstable and thus crysis pushed it over. It's quite stable now because I scaled back slightly until it was stable and now it is stable soooo .... yeah ... I have no problem watching crysis flash accross my 37" tv and immerse you totally in the experience. The only problem is convincing myself to bring the PC back to my room and stop using it purely as a movie/games console from heaven

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Leozack

MakeUniverse($infinity,1,42);

 

[Johnthephoneguy]

paparazi, why does overclocking=gaming in your book?

I have an overclocked E6600 to 3.2, watercooled and rarely if ever play a game on that PC, but I want the most bang for the buck. I came into this thread because I do overclock and wanted to see what issues someone else had.

I agree this forum is for Computer Professionals, but that does not mean everything on your PC has to be professional. I take the term Computer Professional meaning adult members with Computer expertise, not pimply faced teens trying to OC an old P4 they were handed down.

The original question was voltage settings on the MB, to me that is just as a legit question as any others.

JohnThePhoneGuy

"If I can't fix it, it's not broke!