Opinions on Best Programs for Website Creation? 2

[Legendiva]

Hi,
I would like some opinions on the best programs for Designing and Creating Websites. I need to get started, and have very little HTML experience; I currently have the CorelDraw8 full suite, but find it very difficult to use ( even though I am a Computer Consultant/Instructer/Builder, and an Artist! )
( I am running Win98SE, MS Office 2000 Professional, CorelWPSuite8, CorelDraw Suite 8. )

1) Which programs do you consider to be the most full-featured ( that an Artist, with good computer/internet skills would be be interested in; but still relatively simple for a beginner at Website Creation?
( PaintShopPro, Adobe Illustrator, Photoshop, etc, etc. )


2) What about FrontPage?
( I see alot about this one, FrontPage extensions on Webhosting sites, etc. ) Is this worth buying or would what it does be duplicated in another program?

Thanks,
Legendiva

 

[onpnt]

well, all the examples you pointed out PaintShopPro, Adobe Illustrator, Photoshop, etc, etc. are all image creation-modification bits so in addition to those you would want to get a actaul site building package.

I've personaly done some of my best work in notepad but I think that comes from a programmer stand point of things.

Flash mx can give you some great effects graphic wise along with a solid site creation platform. I've not had much time to jump into it but it seems fairly simple to get going in it and has a lot of room for excellent rewards after mastering or become familular with it.

I pretty much hate frontpage. you spend more time dealing with the anoying server ext issues then creating the site. That's coming from designer that used it for a while as well. I'm sure those frontpage gurus will love that one. recommend not buying it.

If you want to really get into it macromedia has dreamweaver mx now

http://www.macromedia.com/software/

that would pretty much complete everything you would need in web site creation
Hope that helps,
Ted
admin@onpntwebdesigns.com

 

[SPYDERIX]

Hi,

For graphics you can use what you have, and getting Photoshop would be a huge bonus and Illustrator.

As for HTML - Notepad LOL (that's what I use)

Or if you really want a program that does everything for you then you're best bet is to get Dreamweaver. Here's why. You have the option for both modes - have the prog do it for you, or you code it. And when it saves the HTML file it doesn't include a lot of extra junk like Netscape composer does or like frontpage does and makes it easier to learn HTML by looking at the exact code and not a bunch of garbage code that can be put in that isn't nessessary.

Hope this helps!

NATE
design@spyderix-designz.com

http://www.spyderix-designz.com

 

[not2ys]

I have the Macromedia / Fireworks 4 studio plus the latest version of Paint Shop Pro. These things do almost anything that are averagely needed and a lot more. Dreamweaver 4 still has a lot to teach me. I can also highly recomend a book called Dreamweaver 4 Hands On Training by Garo Green with Lynda Weinman, Peachpit Press.
Paint shop pro is MEGA good value for web graphics and basic animations. Animations beyond this stage are a whole different matter.

At one time years ago, even the most basic letter written on a computer was a painstaking task with all sorts of coding knowlwdge required. Now we have editors aplenty that are capable of mindnumbing accomplishments.

The same is rapidly becoming true with internet editing.
When learning basic HTML code, which is an essential, then notepad is just great. But the editors like Dreamweaver are where the future is at.

FREE html / javascript tutorials are available from a chap called "joe barta" just key that name into any search engine and follow the links. They are the best that I have ever come across, and are available in a downloadable zip file if you want.

 

[mThomas]

I've read this thread and agree with all said. I use Notepad, a perl editor and a real sweet free html editor called 1stPage 2.0 It was written by a bunch of college kids in Australia. It is totally cool. My favorite thing is the cool live preview.

1stPage is not a wysiwyg editor, so you'll need to know how to code. Once you do, then it is just fantastic. There was supposed to be a version 3, but it's a year late and the last time I checked their site

http://www.evrsoft.com

, the site was down. To bad, however if you can get it from your favorite download site, I highly recommend to grab it and check it out.

I use a basic perl editor. The link is

http://www.perlscriptingtool.com/pst/

They have a free version, that is excellent. You can test and run your scripts. You'll need perl as well, but the editor is easy to use and comes with some example scripts.

The advantage of programs like Dreamweaver and FrontPage are the ease with which you can visualize your documents. I do not take on clients who have a true FrontPage site and want to stay that way. I have taken on clients who have become so frustrated with their FP site that they have paid me to un-FP them. I also have some clients that have FP extensions installed but don't use them. I think that FP makes the use of ssi so complicated with their webbots and all, that it is just to heavy and bulky. All that said, if you know how to code, and you want an editor that will provide you with a design and preview mode, then FP can do the trick.

Again the thing that DR and FP do is allow you to design visually as you go. Using Notepad you have to write some code and then view it in a browser. So you code, save and refresh your browser window.

So if I'm doing some fluff editing (playing with the layout) I use Dreamweaver. If I'm doing a quick edit, then I'll use Notepad, however if I'm doing any serious coding, I'll use 1stPage or my perl editor. I learned to write perl using Notepad. I didn't go to an editor until had a firm grasp of perl.

It is my humble opinion that all web designers should be able to code in Notepad or a 1stPage type of editor and get their documents to look like they want them to, before they use DR or FP. DR and FP are a bit like a credit card, if you never get one, then you can easily live without one, however once you find the ease that a credit card brings, then, well... You tend no to be able to live without one.

One more thing, one of the worst things that both DR and FP do is write heavy code. An example:

<td align&quot;center&quot;>
hello world
</td>

The above code weighs in at a whopping 34 bytes (really 38, but the code is 34 bytes). If you aren't careful how you do things with a wysiwyg editor, you can end up with:

<td>
<div align=&quot;center&quot;>
hello world
</div>
</td>

The above code weighs in over 44 bytes. The 10 bytes spread out over a whole bunch of such coding, and *g* the auto generated code can really get heavy. Of course they may be times when you don't want to align via the table data cell. The point is that these editors write heavy code.

I'm not even mentioning what DR and FP do to JavaScript (ok I'm going to). Do a roll over in either DR of FP and then weigh the code. Then write a roll over from scratch, and weigh the code. You can write roll over and such code that weighs so much less than DR or FP that the extra weight they add is not worth their use as a script editor. That is of course my humble opinion. If you don't know JavaScript or css then you have no idea of the complexity and heavy script these wysiwyg editors write.

mike

http://www.udraw2.com

 

[cian]

Hi,

I use a HTML editor called HTML-Kit, from

http://www.chami.com/html-kit.

Its excellent and can be use to write any kind of code from HTML, XML, VBscript, Perl etc etc etc etc

The latest version comes with a split preview so you can check your pages in IE or Netscape!! Must have!

Its a great way to learn code! Personally I hate WYSIWYG programs, you learn little (usually) and often the code it outputs is very bad! IMHO


É

http://www.endamcg.com/finland-gaa

 

[Kjonnnn]

As a beginner I started out with FrontPage. Its great if you are a begginner. I'm now coverting to Dreamweaver to give me more control.

Many who have lots of experience, especially in HTML, don't like FrontPage. But, if you're a beginner FP is great. And you can learn more about HTML coding and the other things while you are doing you site, but can choose at some later date to convert your site. The learning curve for FP isnt that steep.

But I would suggest looking at FP or Dreamweaver...

 

[RISTMO]

TextPad!!! (is anyone tired of me recommending this program only?)!

http://www.textpad.com

If you use notepad, you'll love textpad. It color codes keywords and stuff making it very easy to find out if you typed ' instead of &quot; or for got a > somewhere in the code. I used to use notepad but Textpad is MUCH better! Color coding is just one of the things it can do. You can also do find and replaces (in multiple documents). It numbers the lines so when you see &quot;object expected on line 672&quot; you don't have to guess where that is! It's a great program with many many features and can be set for javascript,html,css,php,asp etc. pages that you want to make.

Rick if(($question==&quot;has been bugging me&quot;
AND $answer==&quot;fixed the problem&quot OR $answer==&quot;really good post&quot{
print(&quot;Star&quot;
}else{
print(&quot;Thanks.&quot;
}

 

[BigBadDave]

I agree 100% with ristmo, I use Textpad, Apache/MySQL, Photoshop 7 and Flash 5/MX Regards

David Byng

http://www.byngdesigns.co.uk

davidbyng@hotmail.com

if (My Answer == &quot;Good Post&quot {
print (

);
}

 

[mithrilhall]

Graphics: Photoshop 7
Flash: Livemotion 2.0
HTML: Homesite or notepad ====================================
I love people. They taste just like
chicken!

 

[Wullie]

Hi guys,

I have not read all the other posts so some may be duplicated...

For graphics, I use Photoshop and Gimp.

http://www.gimp.org

Gimp is free and will do all the basic tasks that you need, and also some more advanced tecniques that the &quot;paid&quot; programs do not.

For text editing I use Editplus,

http://www.editplus.com

It has a nice colour coding syntax checker, it has saved me a few times. I used to use Notepad but it is only really good for basic pages.

I would highly recommend to stay clear of the WYSIWYG programs as I know a lot of people that use them and when they have a problem, they need to ask someone else to fix it. You are much better to learn the code from the start, it makes it a lot easier to find any mistakes and rectify them.

For flash etc, both Flash MX and Swish are good programs, Swish can make a simple movie in no time at all.

Hope this helps Wullie

sales@freshlookdesign.co.uk

http://www.freshlookdesign.com

http://www.searchit-now.co.uk

 

[confusedlady]

I am amazed that there isn't much mention of Homesite (HTML). Personally, I agree with Wullie about steering clear of the WYSIWYG apps. I dabled with just about anything I could (HTML, not image editing), and my least favorite had to be FrontPage. Too much of a MS product, I think. I think it would be fine for a beginner to use IF you only plan on using FrontPage. If you plan on using different apps, a lot of your &quot;knowledge&quot; is useless. But that's just an opinion confusedlady

 

[MoonHare]

I use notepad for small pages and wordpad for larger ones. I don't like the fluff most HTML editors automatically add -Try this experiment: take a webpage written with an ascii editor, write down its file size, open with your favorite editor, change nothing but save it with the editor, now look at the new file size. I would like to know of any editors that don't almost double the file size for a small webpage. I teach people to write HTML using notepad. It's not rocket science! If they learn writing in ascii, then they never really have big problems with a packaged editor because they know how to tear it apart and take control back from the editor when things get out of hand.

Yrs,
MoonHare

 

[nevets2001uk]

I tend to use Dreamweaver MX as it offers the best of bothworlds for me. When working on standard pages I can happily code directly into HTML but at times when I need to I can work with the graphical editor. I like quick switching between the two for a preview of my design.

For times when I'm not able to use Dreamweaver then I head straight for Notepad. Simple and to the point with no frills the slow things down.

When it comes to working with graphics I am a big fan of Photoshop. Initially I did not like it all that much as I wasn't used to working with it, but I soon came to love it when I saw how easy it was to get things done with it.

Steve

 

[BDNFLNC]

Well, I still like coding HTML in &quot;Wordpad&quot; on Windows the best.

But since I have been working in the enviornment that I am currently in I am using Adobve GoLive most exclusively. I also use Macromedia Dreamweaver when I need to do mouseovers because it writes better code.

Both products get better with every version and lately they are superb!

For developing graphics for the Web, nothing beats Adobe PhotoShop. I am not as impressed with 7 as I thought I would be...but it is good. I like 6 a little better.

Cheers. -----------------------------------------------
These are endless galaxies which are yours.
You can journey to infinity
through the endless passages of the cosmos.
Even better. This all belongs to you.
This is your mind.

 

[RISTMO]

MoonHare -- doing so with textpad gives the *exact* same file size. That's why I recommended textpad. I'm assuming that it't similar to wordpad, but much more powerful, because it wsa designed for html and other web development languages.

Rick if(($question==&quot;has been bugging me&quot;
AND $answer==&quot;fixed the problem&quot OR $answer==&quot;really good post&quot{
print(&quot;Star&quot;
}else{
print(&quot;Thanks.&quot;
}

 

[onpnt]

ristmo, I wanted to thank you in convincing at least me to go to textpad. I've been doing this for awhile and I mostly used notepad due to not liking all the irritating extras mostly coming with editors. I knew of textpad but never had the initiative to try it out until reading these posts. It seems to have just the right amount of info along with a simple editor though and I think I'll be utilizing it a lot in the future.

mark it with a star if you think others should know it's helpful! right!
Was it something I said?
admin@onpntwebdesigns.com

 

[Wullie]

MoonHare,

Editplus is one, it adds no code, is not a WYSIWYG editor so there is no way that any increase in filesize could occur.

It also has
[ul]
[li]Colour syntax highlighting for HTML, CSS, PHP, ASP, Perl, C/C++, Java, JavaScript and VBScript,[/li]
[li]Spell checking,[/li]
[li]Built in FTP abilities,[/li]
[li]Search and replace,[/li]
[/ul]

It is not free but at $30 you could not ask for more.

There is a 30 trial available at

http://www.editplus.com/

, I dare any of you to try it and then tell me that notepad or wordpad are better..

Hope this helps Wullie

sales@freshlookdesign.co.uk

http://www.freshlookdesign.com

http://www.searchit-now.co.uk

 

[RISTMO]

Wullie--It looks like our different editors have the same common features, but textpad has lots of features that I haven't even mentioned because I don't know how to use them all! (I'm sure that editplus does too). The difference is that although textpad also has a $30 registration fee, the trail is just as good, only it asks you if you'd like to register every 20 saves or so-- but there is no 30 day time limit. I used the trail for 2 years before getting a license.

Onpnt--You won't regret it. It's the best I've seen and almost everyone who I've shown it to agrees.

I give out the same deal that Wullie did (but for textpad ;-) ):

I dare any of you to try it and then tell me that notepad or wordpad are better..

Rick if(($question==&quot;has been bugging me&quot;
AND $answer==&quot;fixed the problem&quot OR $answer==&quot;really good post&quot{
print(&quot;Star&quot;
}else{
print(&quot;Thanks.&quot;
}

 

[Legendiva]

Wow! You guys are awesome! Thanks a million ( everybody ) for all your detailed advice and info. I got it all duly noted, and will checkout all the websites and progs you recommend. ( I may have some questions later on; gotta digest a bit first though...)
I noticed that no one even mentioned good old Corel. Most people seem to hate it. There are a few dyed-in-the-wool Corel Designers who love it and do incredible work with it, but I still say it is cumbersome and the learning curve is soooooo bad.
* Learning to Code:
Looks like everyone is recommending that I get at learning 'the do-it-yourself' stuff. I do want to; but may have to 'cheat' at first and use less creativity and control to get some websites at least created and up and running!

* Hate FrontPage:
Seems pretty much a negative on this one! Which I appreciate, because I don't want to waste my money ( like I did on that CorelDraw8 Suite ( even though I did get a good deal at the time at a Computer Show. The blasted thing is a fraction of even that price at Shows now, though....grrrrr )

Lady Ravenquille,
The Legendiva