Opera 7

[polymath5]

Working with Beta1. Still doesn't show some sites correctly. At least it doesn't show some cascading drop down menus correctly.

For an example, Go to

http://www.altn.com

and click on the support menu at the top. Should have one drop down that has selection drop downs hanging off it.

I hope they get this sorted out, and as this is still a beta maybe they will. I really like Opera, but need to have sites displayed the way they are supposed to.
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Mens et Manus
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[OperaFan]

One of the Javascript files linked in the page header of

http://www.altn.com

detects if the browser is Opera and if so displays the page differently.

One can only imagine this was done to get around some Opera 6 bug as AFAICT the DHTML should work with Opera 7.

There is nothing the Opera developers can do about this. Maybe a note to the site designer is needed?

 

[polymath5]

Perhaps I got the poor display because I have Opera set to id as IE.

As far as letting the site developers know. Not a bad idea, but not what I need in a browser.

I really want Opera to display pages the way they do in IE regardless if the site doesn't adhere to stict standards. I know standards are a good thing , but for all intents and purposes IE is the standard browser.

I've started useing NetCaptor. It has most of the features of Opera, tabs, groups, pop up blocker, etc. But the one thing I REALLY miss is the way Opera can magnify text. Because of NetCaptors use of the IE engine, it has the same lame text size settings.

I'm not giving up on Opera, heck I paid for it. I guess I just want what I want =============
Mens et Manus
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[james33]

Dear poymath5,
Opera7 has a really fast rendering engine, far faster than IE.
It has almost perfect support for pages that observe the standards.
Isn't Microsoft a member of WC3 that set the standards.
Why do they still insist on not observing those standards?
Regards Jim
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[james33]

Ho Ho Ho,
I meant W3C.
A little malaprop goes a long way! Regards Jim
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[polymath5]

Hi james33,

What FAQs? There aren't any for this forum. (At least when I click on FAQ at the top of the forum it says there aren't any)

As far as standards and page rendering go. The bottom line is I and most users want to be able to go to a page and have it display properly. The stupidity of 'The Browser Wars' is/should be over. Used to be a site had to display for IE and NS. IE is pretty much the defacto standard, every other browser should render pages as it does.

Don't misunderstand me, I agree with the needs for standards. It's just that I would prefer Opera to be a bit more forgiving when a page is crafted wrong, than it currently is.

I want Opera to be the only browser I need to use. But because of this exacting standards adherence it can't be.

In many cases you don't know a page isn't presenting correctly, in others, most corporate sites will reply that as long as it looks OK in IE, that's all they care about. With over 90% of the browser market, they have somewhat of a point. =============
Mens et Manus
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[redstormaudio]

"IE is pretty much the defacto standard, every other browser should render pages as it does."

Sorry, the w3c sets the standards. If we all just bowed to IE we'd have a piss poor future for the web. "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

 

[james33]

Dear Mens et Manus
Terribly sorry about the reference to non-existent FAQs I have amended my signature.

The point I was making is similar to redstormaudio in that the only way that pages will appear the same in all browsers is if they are all written to the same standard and if the Browsers do all conform to the same standard.

The standards have been developed by, and for the Web community, Opera, more than most others, conforms to them.

It is a bit like telling someone off for obeying the speed limit because most people are speeding!
Or in this case, suggesting that occasionally they should speed.
Regards Jim
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[polymath5]

Sorry about pointing out the no FAQs thing. I didn't realize it was a sig. I thought you were pointing me to the FAQs.

As for standards, you guys are missing my point. I KNOW the w3c sets standards. What I'm saying is the web is about information. If I go to a site in IE and it displays everything the author is offering, good. If I go to the same site in Opera and it doesn't, bad. As a USER I don't care why I don't get the information, only that I'm not. Therefore I'm going to use what ever tool gets the results I need.

As a Techie, I want all websites to fully implement standards. But unfortunately some don't. I still need the information from that site. So I need to use IE, instead of Opera.

Sure I send an email to the sites' webmaster, but if it's a corporate site (some, not all) will figure if their site plays well on IE and NS, they aren't going to worry about super standards compliance for some minor browser. The site that I mentioned at the start of this thread, altN, displays fine in Mozilla and IE, just not Opera.


As for yelling at people doing the speed limit when most people are speeding. Sometimes I do. If I'm on an interstate and all traffic is moving at 65, and someone is driving at 60 or 55, there is a real risk of accidents as people stack up and maneuver around them. Should everybody do the speed limit, absolutely. Do they, no.

There is always the difference between what should be - ideal standards, and what the world really is.

I want every site I visit to be fully compliant and display properly in Opera. But they all don't, so I still need to use IE or programs like NetCaptor that uses IE for display, but adds a lot of Opera like enhancements.

Don't forget I paid for Opera, so I support it.

By the way Mens et Manus is my sig. I borrowed it from my alma motta, MIT. I think it works for our techie world- "Mind and Hand"
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Mens et Manus
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[james33]

Dear polymath5,
Not my week is it, first WC3 and then Mens et Manus!
I was going to go into a long explanation along the lines of speed limits but I realised in time
1.That we do agree on your main point that info should at least be readable in all browsers (have you tried the text emulation in opera?) but crippling Opera with extra code to compensate for the non-compliance of IE seems a bad way to go.
2.That for the results that we both want, we have to explain to some people that they are not getting the maximum exposure for their info if it is only available in one or two of the 3 main browsers.
3.Everyone has individual views on driving too!
Good luck anyway and drop a line to Opera.com to give them a chance to come up with a solution. Regards Jim
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[polymath5]

Hi Jim,

I know what you mean about having a week! Mine was long on Monday!

I did the same with WC3 (w3c)= flying fumbling fingers of fate.

I agree on 1,2,3. I sure don't want Opera bloated up. I just wish some of these sites were open to change. Some just take the attitude of 'Use IE'. Oh well.

Nothing wrong with my Driving Opinion! It's the sane opinion of anyone who drinks a gallon of coffee and Mt. Dew every day!

Have a Great Holliday Season!! =============
Mens et Manus
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[james33]

You too Regards Jim
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