I'm not sure if this is the correct place to put this but I think it's a very interesting article nonetheless:
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Offshoring Your Manager
- Thread starter TomKane
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CajunCenturion
Programmer
Great way to start the day. :-D
Good Luck
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Good Luck
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To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
[Answering to what appears to be a discussion "ball of twine" (here to entertain, if not be taken fully seriously)]
The entire issue of telecommuting has never truly taken off because of one thing: Managers want to have their people in front of them.
I telecommuted for 3 years and it was glorious. My managers (I went through 4) were all very good at remote managing. We were selling a software/hardware product that allows call center agents to work from anywhere and still get delivered the next call in queue and the pop-screen that should be attached to the call.... Could not take off. Resistance centered on the perception that the managers could not trust the agents if they were remote.
So, cost/benefit may indicate off-shoring management makes the most sense... and I don't necessarily disagree. It just won't be likely until the managers feel they can still "reach out and touch someone" in a very manner.
~Thadeus
The entire issue of telecommuting has never truly taken off because of one thing: Managers want to have their people in front of them.
I telecommuted for 3 years and it was glorious. My managers (I went through 4) were all very good at remote managing. We were selling a software/hardware product that allows call center agents to work from anywhere and still get delivered the next call in queue and the pop-screen that should be attached to the call.... Could not take off. Resistance centered on the perception that the managers could not trust the agents if they were remote.
So, cost/benefit may indicate off-shoring management makes the most sense... and I don't necessarily disagree. It just won't be likely until the managers feel they can still "reach out and touch someone" in a very manner.
~Thadeus
langleymass
MIS
Thank you for the article. It also linked to more excellent articles.
You do need human contacts between people to get work done. Most successful 'offshoring' involves entire projects.
If you've ever worked on a project where people are in two different locations, you must have noticed the tendency for them to form two distinct teams which easily view each other as rivals. Those same people in one office would probably have coherered.
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An old man![[tiger]](/data/assets/smilies/tiger.gif "[tiger] [tiger]")
who lives in the UK
If you've ever worked on a project where people are in two different locations, you must have noticed the tendency for them to form two distinct teams which easily view each other as rivals. Those same people in one office would probably have coherered.
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An old man
who lives in the UK
langleymass
MIS
This is my favorite part of the article:
"...the problems offshoring was meant to address can't be addressed by
offshoring.
The problem is not lack of trained programmers in North America nor
cost-effective methods for cranking out successful projects here; the
problem is sloppy or incompetent or lazy management...."
"...the problems offshoring was meant to address can't be addressed by
offshoring.
The problem is not lack of trained programmers in North America nor
cost-effective methods for cranking out successful projects here; the
problem is sloppy or incompetent or lazy management...."
But it's also true that the Republic of India has a lot of skilled programmers. The USA has set the software standards for the rest of the world, but the rest of the world can write it just as well.
I think the article is self-deceiving, in as far as it's not tongue-in-cheek. Of course there is bad management. But the logic of capitalism is to replace high-paid US labour with cheaper overseas labour, except where US labour is much more skilled. The skills gap is narrowing all the time.
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An old man who lives in the UK
I think the article is self-deceiving, in as far as it's not tongue-in-cheek. Of course there is bad management. But the logic of capitalism is to replace high-paid US labour with cheaper overseas labour, except where US labour is much more skilled. The skills gap is narrowing all the time.
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An old man
who lives in the UK>> But it's also true that the Republic of India has a lot of skilled programmers. <<
If you look at it from a sheer population equation, they have 3-4 times the population of the US, and it would follow that they would have 3-4 times as many programmers. Which sounds pretty bad (from our viewpoint).
My experience has been that because of the huge income disparities in India, they aren't using all the talent at their disposal. Most of their programming talent is trapped in the lower classes and have no way to learn the skills they need to compete. Even if a poor person were to acquire good programming skills, their social caste system will obstruct them from moving into a (relatively) high-paying job.
My own experience also has been that India today is where we were in 1999 -- the firms there are struggling to hire qualified candidates, and as a result, they're placing contractors whole sole skill seems to be fogging a mirror.
That being said, the Indian programmers I've met who have emigrated to the US are almost always very good. They're the cream of the crop, and would have to be in order to make it here.
Chip H.
____________________________________________________________________
If you want to get the best response to a question, please read FAQ222-2244 first
If you look at it from a sheer population equation, they have 3-4 times the population of the US, and it would follow that they would have 3-4 times as many programmers. Which sounds pretty bad (from our viewpoint).
My experience has been that because of the huge income disparities in India, they aren't using all the talent at their disposal. Most of their programming talent is trapped in the lower classes and have no way to learn the skills they need to compete. Even if a poor person were to acquire good programming skills, their social caste system will obstruct them from moving into a (relatively) high-paying job.
My own experience also has been that India today is where we were in 1999 -- the firms there are struggling to hire qualified candidates, and as a result, they're placing contractors whole sole skill seems to be fogging a mirror.
That being said, the Indian programmers I've met who have emigrated to the US are almost always very good. They're the cream of the crop, and would have to be in order to make it here.
Chip H.
____________________________________________________________________
If you want to get the best response to a question, please read FAQ222-2244 first
MasterRacker
New member
More on management outsourcing:
[sub]Jeff
[purple]It's never too early to begin preparing for [/purple]International Talk Like a Pirate Day
I was not born cynical - I earned my cynicism through careful observation of the world around me.[/sub]
[sub]Jeff
[purple]It's never too early to begin preparing for [/purple]International Talk Like a Pirate Day
I was not born cynical - I earned my cynicism through careful observation of the world around me.[/sub]
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