NT Workstation Setup on 27gb drive

snicks2 · Oct 7, 1999

NT WS Setup will not recognize this drive. Brand new Dell XPS 600 with 27 gb EIDE drive. Tried three different versions of FDISK and FORMAT (Dos, Win95, and Win98) per Dells "excellent" support. Got farthest with WIN98 but BSOD on first reboot. I've had problems in the past with drives > 8gb and know that NT has a prob with this. Does anyone have a good solution? Thanks!!

jsauce · Oct 7, 1999

Windows NT 4.0 has trouble recognizing drives bigger than 8GB because of the generic Atapi.sys file that comes with the installation. 
 
Download the updated Atapi.sys from Microsoft's FTP server 
 
<A HREF="ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/bussys/winnt/winnt-unsup-ed/fixes/nt40/atapi/ATAPI.EXE" TARGET="_new">ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/bussys/winnt/winnt-unsup-ed/fixes/nt40/atapi/ATAPI.EXE</A> 
 
and copy the file to a blank floppy disk. Run Atapi.exe on the diskette and the new Atapi.sys file will be extracted to the diskette. 
 
Boot from the three setup disks supplied with Windows NT Server. 
 
When asked if you would like setup to detect your mass storage devices, press S so that detection is skipped and you specify a mass storage device. 
 
When setup list devices found, which should list <none>, press S again and insert the atapi disk and press ENTER twice. 
 
After setup reads the disk and list the Microsoft ATAPI Service Pack 4 IDE driver, press ENTER to accept the driver. 
 
Setup will now list Microsoft ATAPI Service Pack 4 IDE Driver as an installed driver. If you have additional drivers for other mass storage devices, press S; if not, press ENTER to continue through setup. 
 
Setup should continue through normally but, it will prompt you to insert the disk labeled "Microsoft ATAPI Service Pack 4 IDE Driver Support Disk" at the copy phase after you have chosen or formatted a partition on a hard drive. 
 
You are still limited to a maximum of 7.8GB on the boot partition even if the atapi file has been updated. 
 
For more information on why go to: <A HREF="

http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q114/8/41.ASP"

TARGET="_new">

http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q114/8/41.ASP</A>

I HOPE THIS HELPS! John D. Saucier <a href=mailto:jsauce@net1plus.com>jsauce@net1plus.com</a> <a href=

http://www.net1plus.com/users/jsauce>Registry

Backup</a>

snicks2 · Oct 8, 1999

I tried using the Microsoft ATAPI driver and it accepts the driver but still says that setup could not find a hard drive.

Warcorp · Oct 8, 1999

Something else is wrong here. I have set many drives up on NT that have been greater than 8 gigs, it just limits the size of the initial volume. Is this perchance an ATA/66 drive and controller? They require special drivers to run... 
 
Jim Collin <a href=mailto:Jim@collin.cc>Jim@collin.cc</a> <a href=

http://www.collin.cc>Collin

Technologies</a> Consumer Technology Integration

jsauce · Oct 8, 1999

I forgot about telling you that you should check to make sure you also install the ATA drivers, or else you will run into Windows NT stop errors dealing with the mass storage problems. John D. Saucier <a href=mailto:jsauce@net1plus.com>jsauce@net1plus.com</a> <a href=

http://www.net1plus.com/users/jsauce>Registry

Backup</a>

waynemaples · Oct 14, 1999

the message from NT that it can not a hard drive is caused by not presenting NT with the new driver early enough in the installation process. This is a common situation with newer SCSI drivers and with RAID drivers. If it is that situation, as soon as "Setup is inspecting your Hardware...." appears on the screen, press F6 several times and NT will allow you install mass storage device drivers. For some drivers, its too late in the initialization sequence if you wait until NT prompts you for additional drivers. 
 
documented SCSI problem in <A HREF="

http://is-it-true.org/nt/utips/utips57.shtml"

TARGET="_new">

http://is-it-true.org/nt/utips/utips57.shtml</A>

If this works for you, let me know so I can update my tip. Didn't know ATAPI.sys driver had similar problem. 
 
-Wayne

Guest_imported · Oct 15, 1999

Thanks Wayne. Something I never knew

might save some headaches in the future. Thanks alot for the info! 
 
God's Love, John Vogel <a href=mailto:john@computerwiz.net>john@computerwiz.net</a> <a href=

http://computerwiz.net>ComputerWiz</a>

snicks2 · Oct 15, 1999

That worked!! Thanks everyone. I had to press F6 (something I never knew) to add this driver (the Ultra/66 driver that someone at Dell finally sent to me)! If I tried to add the driver when NT prompted me for mass storage devices, it did not work. Wayne, you are right. I guess it was too late in the setup. 
 
Thanks again Snicks2!!

jsauce · Oct 16, 1999

It could have been done with the three disk setup as well. John D. Saucier <a href=mailto:jsauce@net1plus.com>jsauce@net1plus.com</a> <a href=

http://www.net1plus.com/users/jsauce>Registry

Backup</a>

waynemaples · Oct 18, 1999

John 
 
What do you mean exactly? The same issue applies on a brand new PC where you are installing 
NT for the first time using either the 3 boot diskettes or a bootable CD. By the time NT prompts for new mass storeage drivers (at least a subset of them), its too late. NT will not see a drive to install on. When new driver needs to be presented to NT, the F6 method is the only method I know that works. 
 
If you mean that the updated driver could have been added to the 3 disks, can you give little more detail. I know how to add the checked versions of some of the boot files but don't have info about adding new drivers to the boot disks. 
 
-Wayne

jsauce · Oct 18, 1999

With a three disk setup it prompts for the mass storage detection. It basically asks you if you want Windows NT to detect the devices, you SAY NO. Then you are presented with a list. You either select the device from the list or present Windows NT with an alternate driver. John D. Saucier <a href=mailto:jsauce@net1plus.com>jsauce@net1plus.com</a> <a href=

http://www.net1plus.com/users/jsauce>Registry

Backup</a>

waynemaples · Oct 22, 1999

thanks jsause. I believe it was the bootabe CD-Rom installs where this was required. -Wayne

SRG · Nov 2, 1999

This is something you should be aware of. 
 
Although Windows NT 4.0 can in theory support partitions of up to 16 exabytes in 
size using the NTFS file system, the maximum size of the system partition is 
limited to 7.8 gigabytes (GB). 
 
MORE INFORMATION 
================ 
 
The system partition is defined as the partition containing the files needed for 
the initial system startup. For Windows NT, the files are NTDetect.com, NTLDR, 
Boot.ini, and sometimes Ntbootdd.sys. 
 
A boot partition is defined as the partition containing the system files. For 
Windows NT, this is the partition containing the %SystemRoot%\System32 folder. 
 
The system partition and boot partition can be on the same partition or on 
different partitions. Because there can be multiple operating systems installed 
on a single computer, a computer can have multiple boot partitions, but a 
computer has only a single system partition. 
 
When an Intel-based computer first boots, a number of things occur that result in 
the operating system being loaded and started. This process, known as the 
bootstrap process, has inherent hardware and software limitations beyond which 
Windows NT cannot operate. It is these limitations that prevent Windows NT 4.0 
from using a partition larger than 7.8 GB as a system partition. 
 
During the bootstrap process, the only mechanism available to Windows NT (or any 
other operating system) to access the drive is a set of functions in the BIOS 
known as Interrupt 13 (INT13). The INT13 functions allow low-level code to read 
from and write to the drive by addressing a specific sector on the drive. When 
the INT13 architecture was developed back in the early 1980s, the possibility of 
multi-gigabyte hard disks was not taken into consideration. The INT13 functions 
define 24 bits to describe a sector on the hard disk. This breaks down to a 
maximum of 256 heads (or sides), 1024 cylinders, and 63 sectors. With these 
numbers, only 256*1024*63 (or 16,515,072) sectors can be used with INT13 
functions. At a standard 512 bytes per sector, this is 8,455,716,864 bytes, or 
approximately 7.8 GB. Note that for most modern drives, the computer's BIOS must 
support some form of sector translation for the BIOS functions to address the 
first 7.8 GB of disk space. The BIOS in virtually all modern computers supports 
"Logical Block Addressing," which allows INT13 functions to address the first 
7.8 GB of drive space independent of the drive's physical geometry. 
 
The INT13 functions are the only means available to the operating system to gain 
access to the drive and system partition until the operating system loads 
additional drivers that allow it to gain access to the drive without going 
through INT13. Therefore, Windows NT 4.0 cannot use a system partition larger 
than 7.8 GB. In fact, the entire system partition must be entirely within the 
first 7.8 GB of the physical disk. Windows NT can use a 7.8-GB system partition 
only if the partition begins at the start of the physical drive. 
 
NOTE: Partitions other than the system partition are not affected by the these 
limitations. 
 
Other operating systems, such as Microsoft Windows 95 OEM Service Release 2, 
Microsoft Windows 98, and Microsoft Windows 2000, can boot from larger 
partitions because these operating systems were written after the computer 
industry defined a new standard for BIOS INT13 functions (the "INT13 
extensions&quot

and implemented this new functionality on manufactured 
motherboards. Because Windows NT 4.0 was written before this new standard was 
invented, Windows NT 4.0 is unaware of this new technology and is unable to use 
its features. 
 
When you are installing Windows NT 4.0, you can create a system partition with a 
maximum size of 4 GB. This occurs because Setup first formats the partition 
using the FAT file system. If you want to use an NTFS partition, the partition 
is converted to NTFS after the first reboot. The FAT file system has a file 
system limitation (unrelated to any BIOS limitations) of 4 GB. When you perform 
an unattended installation, use of the ExtendOEMPartition directive in an 
Unattend.txt file can expand the system partition to a maximum of 7.8 GB. 
 
In the future, additional limitations may come into play as well. Although the 
NTFS file system can address 16 exabytes of disk space in a single partition, 
current disk-partitioning schemes store partition information in structures that 
limit partitions to 2^32 sectors, or 2 terabytes, in size. The ATA hardware 
interface uses 28-bit addressing, which supports drives that are 2^24 sectors, 
or 137 GB, in size. These limitations may apply to partitions other than the 
system partition as well. 
 
Note that file system limitations and hardware limitations exist independently of 
each other, and the most restrictive of the two is the determining factor in the 
maximum partition size. Another factor to consider when you are troubleshooting 
partitioning problems is that hard disk manufacturers often use "decimal 
megabytes" (1 megabyte = 1,000,000 bytes), whereas Windows NT uses "binary 
megabytes" (1 megabytes = 1,048,576 bytes). Using both definitions of a megabyte 
in calculations can often account for "lost" disk space. Also, this article 
assumes a sector size of 512 bytes in all calculations. Although a 512-byte 
sector has become a de facto industry standard, it is possible that disk 
manufacturers could produce drives with a different sector size. This would 
result in a corresponding change in partition limits. Partitions are based on 
cylinder, head, and sector calculations, not on byte calculations. Therefore, a 
change in bytes per sector causes a change in bytes per partition.

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NT Workstation Setup on 27gb drive

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