NT 4 file and folder permissions for no delete

[deliamay]

I am trying to create a folder whereby users (ie everyone except administrators) can read, add new files, modify existing files but NOT delete files from that folder. I have set the folder/file permissions to:
administrators:FC/FC everybody RWX/RWX (using special folder and special file permissions) and i added SYSTEM: FC/FC following something i read on the internet!
The share permission is everybody FC/FC.
It just doesn't work - i've searched the forum and found a few relevant threads such as thread55-770497 but have found no solution. If i try to modify an existing file as a user, it says file not found (even though it does in fact modify it) but it creates a load of temp files fsa*.tmp, backups *.wbk and various other strange things, like the filemane with a 1 after it containing no data. If i make the file permissions RWXD it works fine (ie i can modify without any of the above problems) but i can also delete the file which i don't want to do ! what am i doing wrong ?
thanks Delia

 

[zoeythecat]

You have the share permission set as FC/FC. I would think you would need to change this permission to something like RX. You may have to play around with this but you need to start here.

 

[itsp1965]

Delia I had this problem on a Windows 2000 server where users were NOT allowed delete the files. Try this;

1. Provide Modify rights to the folder. Then go to Advanced

2. For this folder/files/and subfolders, deny the following rights;
Deny Delete Subfolders and Files
Deny Delete Files
Allow everything else

Give that a shot. Hope it works.

Regards

Terry

 

[deliamay]

Thanks for your reply zoeythecat.
The possibile share permssions are FC, change, Read or no accesss - if i use Read, it make all files read only so i can't modify, if i use change it allows me to delete files which i don't want to do. I think the problem is the RWX special permission (NTFS) on folder and files. If you can demonstrate that this works, could you let me know exactly waht combination you have for share, folder and file permissions. i seem to have tried all combinations without success but of course i may be missing something !
Delia

 

[zoeythecat]

I think Terry made a good suggestion. Try that suggestion and see if it works.

 

[deliamay]

Just seen another reply to my problem thanks - unfortunately NT does not appear to have this advanced button ! Could it be something they added to Windows 2000 to solve this problem ?

 

[zoeythecat]

Sorry I have not used NT4 (i'm actually certified in this) in over 3 years. We are a Windows2003 shop (formerly NT4) and i'm trying to jog my memory. I would try this. Create the folder like this:
Share Permissions
Adminstrators=FC
Everyone=(Change Permissions)
Security Permissions(I.E Directory Permissions)
Administrators=FC
Everyone=(RWX) - Try and see if there is anywhere you can remove the deleted permission. I know in Windows2000 and Windows2003 you can bring up an advanced area and remove this selection (as Terry noted). I'm guessing there must be a setting somewhere on NT4 to do this.

I will see if I can find an article for you to confirm this.

 

[zoeythecat]

Check out this link to see if this helps at all?

http://www.svrops.com/svrops/documents/nt4perms.htm

 

[itsp1965]

Delia, have you tried connecting using a Win2k or Win2K3 server to this NT box. I just test this from a Win2K3 box to an old NT domain controller. Right click on the folder-->Click Advanced->Select Effective Permissions choose to Deny the Delete permissions.

 

[deliamay]

I don't have any Win2k or 2003 servers on the network but i'm trying to see if by chance i can do anything from an XP - i'll let you know. Thanks for the link to svrops website - it looks useful for lots of things.
Delia

 

[deliamay]

Well it IS possible to change the permissions from an XP pc on the network (scary). I need to play around for a while to get the combination right. At present after doing the denying delete thing, i'm having the problems i had before (creating weird temp files, saying it can't save but still saving etc.) aaarrrghhh !!!!

 

[itsp1965]

Delia, I had the EXACT same issue regarding the temp files. What happens is when users attempt to save files they temporarily create temp files when working on the file. In order to save you need FULL MODIFY right which includes the Delete right. As long as users keep trying to save directly to the folder, they will ALWAYS have this problem. The recommendation is that they save locally where they have full access and then copy the file over. Otherwise they will never be able to make modifications to the files in that folder

 

[deliamay]

You mean that what i'm trying to do can't be done ? well it's good to know so i don't waste any more time on it.
Now i need to change my thinking in order to resolve a functional problem. thanks for the help from you and zoeycat.

 

[AndrewTait]

Try setting the location for temporary files to a local disk on the workstation. This will need to be done on each workstation, and will allow the user to delete the temporary files after use.

The error message you are receiving is because it cannot delete the temporary files.

So often times it happens that we live our lives in chains
And we never even know we have the key

 

[deliamay]

Thanks andrew, since i still haven't come up with a good solution i'll try it. It seems incredible that i can't create a folder that allows modification but not deletion. errm can you remind me how to do this. Is it something i do from word or is it a PC parameter? The documents to be saved in this particular folder are all word documents. The word program is of course installed locally and the documents are saved cenrally on a server.
thanks Delia

 

[deliamay]

Taken from Microsoft Support Document
"The location where Word creates the temporary files is hardcoded information and cannot be edited."

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=211632

looks like I can't change the directory

 

[AndrewTait]

Oh well, I remember doing it years ago, with some version of word. Have spent the last day looking for an answer for you.

Sorry to have given you false hope.

So often times it happens that we live our lives in chains
And we never even know we have the key

 

[deliamay]

Thanks andrew i really appreciate your trying to help - it's really annoying not to be able to protect this folder from the deletion of files.

 

[zoeythecat]

Maybe it is time to upgrade this one server to Windows2003?

 

[AndrewTait]

Not a bad idea, assuming the H/W will take it!

So often times it happens that we live our lives in chains
And we never even know we have the key