Norton Ghost Questions 1

[Trudye]

I have a few questions about Norton/Symantec Ghost software. I just purchased it and backed up my hdd to a Image file. I have read the help file but just want to be sure of some things.

Ghost implies that it reformats the hdd that you want to restore to, is that true?

I want to run a test of the restore process on another PC that I don't use. Can I just insert the boot disk (A:/) and reboot the old PC? And then using Ghost.exe restore my Image file to the old PC?

I noticed that Ghost uses PC DOS as opposed to MS DOS. I looked up PC DOS and from what I read the commands should be the same. Does anyone know it that's true?

I recently suffered hdd failure and I want to insure that I am protected. I would prefer to find out now what I have to do to get back up and running rather than wait until the next failure.

Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks so much
Trudye

 

[dgax]

First, you should have a copy of your ghost image burned on a cd, and have a ghost boot disk labeled for use and stored in a safe place. And your ghost boot disk will boot up into a dos type menu prompting you for an action, either to restore an image or save one. Thats where your CD comes into play, because this is the target drive where you tell Ghost that your "Named" image is located. Now, restoring your saved image onto another PC will work for testing, however, your ghosted image may have a few registry conflicts because of an entirely different system and it's component settings.

Good Luck!

 

[jdeane]

If you are using 2k or XP then you should copy the following files from the original install cd to your c:\winnt\system32 folder and import the following into the registry otherwise you may get the 'inaccessible_boot_device'blue screen of death after the restore if you have changed your motherboard since taking the original ghost image.

intelide.sys
pciide.sys
pciidex.sys
atapi.sys


*** REG START ***

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\CriticalDeviceDatabase\primary_ide_channel]
"ClassGUID"="{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}"
"Service"="atapi"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\CriticalDeviceDatabase\secondary_ide_channel]
"ClassGUID"="{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}"
"Service"="atapi"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\CriticalDeviceDatabase\*pnp0600]
"ClassGUID"="{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}"
"Service"="atapi"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\CriticalDeviceDatabase\*azt0502]
"ClassGUID"="{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}"
"Service"="atapi"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\CriticalDeviceDatabase\gendisk]
"ClassGUID"="{4D36E967-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}"
"Service"="disk"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\CriticalDeviceDatabase\pci#cc_0101]
"ClassGUID"="{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}"
"Service"="pciide"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\CriticalDeviceDatabase\pci#ven_0e11&dev_ae33]
"ClassGUID"="{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}"
"Service"="pciide"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\CriticalDeviceDatabase\pci#ven_1039&dev_0601]
"ClassGUID"="{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}"
"Service"="pciide"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\CriticalDeviceDatabase\pci#ven_1039&dev_5513]
"ClassGUID"="{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}"
"Service"="pciide"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\CriticalDeviceDatabase\pci#ven_1042&dev_1000]
"ClassGUID"="{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}"
"Service"="pciide"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\CriticalDeviceDatabase\pci#ven_105a&dev_4d33]
"ClassGUID"="{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}"
"Service"="pciide"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\CriticalDeviceDatabase\pci#ven_1095&dev_0640]
"ClassGUID"="{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}"
"Service"="pciide"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\CriticalDeviceDatabase\pci#ven_1095&dev_0646]
"ClassGUID"="{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}"
"Service"="pciide"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\CriticalDeviceDatabase\pci#ven_1097&dev_0038]
"ClassGUID"="{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}"
"Service"="pciide"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\CriticalDeviceDatabase\pci#ven_10ad&dev_0001]
"ClassGUID"="{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}"
"Service"="pciide"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\CriticalDeviceDatabase\pci#ven_10ad&dev_0150]
"ClassGUID"="{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}"
"Service"="pciide"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\CriticalDeviceDatabase\pci#ven_10b9&dev_5215]
"ClassGUID"="{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}"
"Service"="pciide"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\CriticalDeviceDatabase\pci#ven_10b9&dev_5219]
"ClassGUID"="{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}"
"Service"="pciide"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\CriticalDeviceDatabase\pci#ven_10b9&dev_5229]
"ClassGUID"="{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}"
"Service"="pciide"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\CriticalDeviceDatabase\pci#ven_1106&dev_0571]
"Service"="pciide"
"ClassGUID"="{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\CriticalDeviceDatabase\pci#ven_8086&dev_1222]
"ClassGUID"="{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}"
"Service"="intelide"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\CriticalDeviceDatabase\pci#ven_8086&dev_1230]
"ClassGUID"="{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}"
"Service"="intelide"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\CriticalDeviceDatabase\pci#ven_8086&dev_2411]
"ClassGUID"="{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}"
"Service"="intelide"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\CriticalDeviceDatabase\pci#ven_8086&dev_2421]
"ClassGUID"="{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}"
"Service"="intelide"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\CriticalDeviceDatabase\pci#ven_8086&dev_7010]
"ClassGUID"="{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}"
"Service"="intelide"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\CriticalDeviceDatabase\pci#ven_8086&dev_7111]
"ClassGUID"="{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}"
"Service"="intelide"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\CriticalDeviceDatabase\pci#ven_8086&dev_7199]
"ClassGUID"="{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}"
"Service"="intelide"

;Add driver for Atapi (requires atapi.sys in drivers directory)

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\atapi]
"ErrorControl"=dword:00000001
"Group"="SCSI miniport"
"Start"=dword:00000000
"Tag"=dword:00000019
"Type"=dword:00000001
"DisplayName"="Standard IDE/ESDI Hard Disk Controller"
"ImagePath"=hex(2):53,00,79,00,73,00,74,00,65,00,6d,00,33,00,32,00,5c,00,44,00,\
52,00,49,00,56,00,45,00,52,00,53,00,5c,00,61,00,74,00,61,00,70,00,69,00,2e,\
00,73,00,79,00,73,00,00,00

;Add driver for intelide (requires intelide.sys in drivers directory)

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\IntelIde]
"ErrorControl"=dword:00000001
"Group"="System Bus Extender"
"Start"=dword:00000000
"Tag"=dword:00000004
"Type"=dword:00000001
"ImagePath"=hex(2):53,00,79,00,73,00,74,00,65,00,6d,00,33,00,32,00,5c,00,44,00,\
52,00,49,00,56,00,45,00,52,00,53,00,5c,00,69,00,6e,00,74,00,65,00,6c,00,69,\
00,64,00,65,00,2e,00,73,00,79,00,73,00,00,00


;Add driver for pciide (requires pciide.sys and pciidex.sys in drivers directory)

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\PCIIde]
"ErrorControl"=dword:00000001
"Group"="System Bus Extender"
"Start"=dword:00000000
"Tag"=dword:00000003
"Type"=dword:00000001
"ImagePath"=hex(2):53,00,79,00,73,00,74,00,65,00,6d,00,33,00,32,00,5c,00,44,00,\
52,00,49,00,56,00,45,00,52,00,53,00,5c,00,70,00,63,00,69,00,69,00,64,00,65,\
00,2e,00,73,00,79,00,73,00,00,00


*** REG FINSH ***

 

[Trudye]

dgax, jdeane thanks so much for responding.

dgax:
I layed my Image down on my new 80 gb Iomega hdd do I still need to put it on a CD? However my hdd is USB, which may cause a problem with drivers being loaded and may even cause problems with PC DOS. Do you know if the "Installing USB drivers peer-to-peer" option will eliminate this problem. I believe when I created the Image I set the "Assign CD/DVD a drive letter option" just as a precaution. So if you think it would be better to have the image on CD I am covered.

jdeane:
Since I am not a systems person (but I do know enough to be dangerous) I am going to assume you mean copy these items the same CD that my Image resides on. And then after restoring my Image copy these items to my new Image.
Not a problem.

Thanks again
Trudye

 

[jdeane]

coping the files after the image is made will not work, you could use Ghost Explorer and place the files you are missing (you will probable find that you already have 2 of the four files) into the correct folder in the image. However you will not be able to import the reg entries into the registry (well, you can if it is the same mother board because w2k/XP will then boot but if this is going onto a different computer chances are it will blue screen) At which point the coping of the other IDE driver files becomes irrelevant.

Really what you need to do is import the reg file onto the orginal pc and copy the files over and then re-Ghost the image.

I always import the reg file and copy the files over on to w2k builds as you never know what can happen to the motherboard, some people will tell you that you can get around the blue screen but none of the options have worked for me and in a business enviorment I prefer to be safer than sorry.

Jon

 

[Trudye]

Hi Jon:

I am sorry to say you lost me (which I must admit is not very hard to do in this arena.

You said copy the reg (I assume you mean registry entries) onto the original PC. Wouldn't the registry entries already be on the original PC since that's what I am making the image of?
I have another question. You implied if I changed Motherboards all bets were off. So if my hdd crashes, or my Motherboard goes bad and I buy a new PC or upgrade, my ghost image is useless?
Also what about my choice of storage? Does the ghost image have to be on CD or will the (over priced) hdd I just purchased do?

I apologize for the inconvenience but I am trying to get this right. Having to rebuild my PC every time it fails is costly.

Thanks
Trudye

 

[jdeane]

if your IDE controller (usually on the motherboard) goes down and you replace the MB and you have not imported the registry settings from above then the chances are that you hard disk will not boot.

See Microsoft knowledge base article 271965 or use

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;271965

to see

This is why you really need to make these changes before you ghost the original drive otherwise your backup becomes just another frisbee

The reason is that w2k may try to load the incorrect IDE drivers half way through the boot process and then fall over with a blue screen. I know this as it took me a few weeks to find the solution myself. Hence I always now add the reg entries and missing driver files onto all my pc's as you never know if the next motherboard will use the same IDE controller chip as the one before it.

Jon

 

[Trudye]

You are too funny "otherwise your backup becomes just another frisbee"!

So let me test my understanding. I have to bring up the registry (on my currently running PC) and import the above locations in to my (currently running PC) registry. This is where I get confused won't that overlay what is already in these locations or is that the goal?
Also how do you do an Import to REG Edit?

I know these questions don't seem very smart to you but I also know that the Registry is nothing to play with. Unless you know what you are doing you can wreck your operating system, which is almost as bad as a hdd crash. Bottom line
you have to start over rebuilding your system.

Trudye

 

[jdeane]

copy the bit above between the ** and paste into notepad and save it as mergeide.reg to the c: drive Right click on this file and select 'merge'

This will import the settings, yes it will overwrite a few of the current entries but they are already the same, and it will create the missing ones. copy the missing files from above as I said before you will find that 2 of the files are already there.

Let me know how you are getting on

Jon

 

[Trudye]

Hi jdean:

I got this info from Symantec. I haven't read it yet I wanted to pass it along to you because I thought it would help. I'll get back to you after I read it.

Be well and thanks for everything,
Trudye

We do not have any registry changes available that will help with restoring an image to a different Windows 2000 systems, but your best option is to use the Microsoft Sysprep tool on the Windows 2000 system
first before creating the image file.

Sysprep can be configured to allow Windows 2000 to work around crucial hardware differences between the source and destination machines which may otherwise prevent booting.
So you will want to run Sysprep before you create your Windows 2000
images.

Title: 'How to use SysPrep with Ghost'
Document ID: 2000081610075225
Web URL:

http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/ghost.nsf/docid/2000081610075225?Open&src=w

 

[Trudye]

OBTW Sysprep clears all your setting. I had to setup my email, it cleared my downloaded email from Outlook Express, it cleared my desktop and desktop settings etc.

Trudye

 

[Trudye]

I was wrong about the reseting of your system, it was my error DUH!

Trudye

 

[mtanner01]

I have seen this thread, and want to try and use this to ensure that if a system failure occurs we have the best chance of recovering with an XP/2000 client.

One thing that is not clear to me. Is if the 4 system files listed to extract already exist in the destination folder (are newer) do you overwrite?

Great Post!

 

[Trudye]

Hi mtanner:

I am very, very disappointed in Ghost. I've only done one successful backup/imaging and that was to my external hdd. I cannot get a definitive answer from Symantec as to why my backups get right to the end and fail. It is also questionable as to weather I will be able to use my hdd (USB) drive to restore my PC drive (because of driver loading and the restore being done in PC-DOS).

They gave me 7 possible reasons and solutions for the failure. The way their response was worded implied these were things I could try to solve "MY" problem. In programming terms that means my software is so poorly written I have no error trapping mechanism in place. So it could be bombing out anywhere.

The problem is that every time you try one of their solutions you are burning up a box of CD's (which are not cheap), not to mention the time you are investing. This is not a backup you can start, go to bed and wake up in the morning and it's done. You have to be available to change CD's.

In the June issue of PC Magazine they address Utilities, and one of the Utilities they address is Drive Imaging. They listed 3 drive imaging products they tested, of which Ghost was one. However they ranked TrueImage 6.0 the highest with one caveat it does not let you clone one drive directly to another. Which is valuable if you want to configure one or more PC's identically.

I have not tried TrueImage yet but intend to purchase it soon.

Good luck in whatever software you purchase and keep me informed.


Trudye

 

[dermoyn]

Don't be disappointed in Ghost; be disappointed in Symantec. Ghost is awesome.

The only part of Ghost that you need is the executable:
ghost.exe
or, depending on your version:
ghostpe.exe

Make a Win9x boot disk (no need for PCDOS) and just copy over ghost.exe (or ghostpe.exe) onto it.
Boot with the floppy and run the execuatable from the prompt.

The problem with trying your image on another PC with different components is that when an OS is installed it takes into account much of the stuff on the PC. So, if your other PC is different from the one the image is made on you won't be able to check your image.

However, if you take your hard drive from the other PC and slip it into the PC the image was made from you should have no problem testing your image. Assuming it was made correctly. And, of course, as somebody said, if you have burnt the image to a CD. When creating an image on a PC that has a CD burner installed Ghost usually will detect that burner and list it as a possible destination. If you don't have a CD burner you woule be far better off buying one than wasting Drive Image. Ghost will do anything Drive Image can do.

If you make an image of a dual boot system (i.e. W2k on partition 2) you will of course have to make two images (assuming you image from partition to partition or, as somebody else said - from partition to CD. I do it both ways). One image of your initial OS and one of the W2k. The reason for this is because W2k places its boot files on C. Copying them over after (if you have saved them somewhere else) won't cut it as the installation W2k also writes the boot sector on C. Using FIXBOOT from the Recovery Console will give you a W2k boot sector that will allow you to boot into 2k but not your other OS.

By the way, I sort of lost track of your post. Your problem initially seemed to be that you just needed/wanted to test your image. Now it seems to be that you can't create images. Just do them the same way that you created the first one. This thread has got way too complicated. At least in my, ahem, humble opinion.
And if I can drag, most reluctantly I would imagine, Henry David Thoreau in here:

Simplify, Simplify, Simplify.

I have used both Ghost and Drive Image. I far prefer Ghost. Both are very easy to use.
There's a handy little guide on the Web for Ghost: do a search for Radified Ghost.

HIH
Dermot

 

[Trudye]

You are correct my thread did start out with me looking to test the restore of my image to another PC. However I didn’t get that far I was unable to get a CD image/backup to complete successfully with GHOST. I just assumed Symantec would put out a good product and the backup/imaging would go just fine. I was able to get it to back up to an external hdd. But I do not have a warm tummy feeling about being able to restore from the external hdd.

The CD burner imaging failed on me four times, twice with CD-RW discs and twice with CD-R discs. I understand why it failed with the CD-RW's, and to GHOST's credit it failed early, saving me time, CD’s and speeding up my learning curve regarding CD-RW discs and GHOST's compatibility.

I then tried twice with CDR-W's. It blew up twice in the same spot, at the very end of the backup. After going thru an entire box of CD's.

When I contacted Symantec they gave me 7 possible reasons and solutions. If I did that to my clients they would not be my clients for long. That’s like asking your client to debug your software for you. Usually that’s done in Beta testing and the User is not charged for the software.

Call me crazy but when you put a software on the market especially one as critical to the public as a backup you should not have multiple choice error options. That backup will needed at a critical time. I don't want to spend time worrying if the backed up Image is going to work when I need it. And if their backup is shaky how can I have confidence in their restore?

I don't know if I'll be restoring to another system or my current system. If there are caveats to your (critical) software then Symantec should make them known (i.e. you can't restore our Ghost image to a different PC or whatever the problem happens to be). One gentleman wrote in this thread that you had to copy certain Registry locations to make your restore successful. I contacted Symantec and they (in a blasé’) manner poo-poo’d that idea.

I will repeat I am very disappointed in Symantec because I have other Symantec products I am very happy with. They were the reason I chose GHOST over the other imaging software. But if you have errors that you can't definitively explain then your software ain't ready for prime time and you should leave it in the test lab until it is. I think we as consumers deal with enough bad products and service every day.

Just my opinion, I’ll get off my soapbox now.
Thanks for the input Dermot
Trudye

 

[jdeane]

Must admit I have never tried to take an image and place it straight on to an cd-r.

I always put in a second hard drive and place the image file on to it first and then burn the bootable cd with a copy of ghost.exe also on it

Never fails

Jon

 

[Trudye]

Hi JOn:

So you opt to go to ex-hdd instead of directly to
CD-R? That is very interesting.

OK let me test my understanding and please let me take baby steps since I'm a programmer and screwing in a light bulb requires a hardware techie at my house.

Now that I have my image on an ex-hdd I can burn it to a CD-R. Now here comes the not too bright scenario; I run Ghost Boot Wizard and point to my CD-R so it now becomes a boot disk. I drag and drop Ghost.exe on the very same CD-R? I then copy each of *.GHS files to CD?

And when I do my restore at what point do I Alter my c:\winnt\system32 folder and my registry? Won’t I get the blue screen as soon as Ghost is done and it reboots my system?

Trudye

 

[mtanner01]

jdeane,

I have a question about the registry/system file update to allow for Generic IDE configuration on Windows XP/2000. If you extract the 4 system files (intelide.sys, pciide.sys, pciidex.sys,atapi.sys) should you overwrite then if a more current version exists in the c:\%windir%\system32\drivers folder?

This has been a very interesting post.

Thanks!

 

[rtlinux]

Trudye,

the fastest way to cerate an image of a pc is drive to drive depending on the version you are using.

Here is how I use ghost (7.0 enterprise) [also supports usb and paralell ports]
ghost.exe -split=690 -auto -z2 -ntchkdsk [via dos network boot disk I created on my own]

The -split tells ghost that the max size of any part is 690 meg (for cd rom purposes) -auto eliminates some prompts
-z2 is for compression -ntchkdsk forces a check disk on reboot. I also run sysprep BEFORE running ghost. If I need to make a cd of an image I use a 3rd party tool like Roxio or Nero. Keep in mind that this is for like systems. If you are looking to make a generic backup use the -pnp switch for sysprep and it will setup the hardware on your new box during the minisetup phase.

hope that helps.


Thank You,

Roger Truss
A+, Network+
Workstation Customer Support Analyst
rtruss@mercmarine.com
Mercury Marine