Nortel vs. Cisco (was Nortel vs. Mitel)

[jneiberger]

[continued from a different thread...]

johnpoole,

Our data network is Cisco and we have a bunch of Option 11C PBXs, a few Norstars, and an 81C. Nortel is recommending that we add signaling servers, an NRS, and the other odds-and-ends to make this into a VoIP network. The Option 11s would become 1000Ms.

If the cost were the same, would you be tempted to go down that road? Or, if you're going to make the jump to IP telephony, would you bite the bullet and still go with Cisco to get a better overall solution?

I know there are a lot of variables. I'm just curious to get your opinion.

 

[johnpoole]

i am a hard core nortel tech. that said, they can't hold a candle to cisco in the data world. cisco call manager is top of the line. one good thing is any ccna can program the box, maybe miss a few whistles and bells but he'll get the basics right. bell south sells both and i've worked with both, been through the schools. i like a cisco voip solution with qsig back to the nortel tdn world. that's what i have on this network, nortel 81 c a few 11's and 2 ccm's. with qsig i have names and msg lamps, with nortel call pilot and desktop msg, i have voice mail to your email account, plus any ext can be both a voice path and a fax number.. in my case if you dial xxx 5000, it rings my nortel, forwards to my cisco wireless, then goes to call pilot voice mail. i get a flag on the screen and click to open the voice mail, save it to a file or attach it and send it away. very clean very fast, if you fax to the same number, i open it like any other email, print it, or file it. i still believe there is a need for both, voip and tdm, at least another 10 years before voip is a stand alone voice solution.. parts of most data nets drop, way to often. 98 percent of the time, my networks down, should read, a server is down, the networks up.. the backbone almost never goes down, so voip can still talk. cisco peer to peer makes unreal use of ava bandwidth. but on the wan side, spend $$$$ on bandwidth or stay home (tdm pstn)

john poole
bellsouth business
columbia,sc

 

[jneiberger]

Thanks for the input, I really appreciate it!

Okay, let's restrict the parameters a bit. Let's say you have an existing Nortel TDM voice network (Option 11s) and Cisco data equipment, and you decide that you have to move entirely to VoIP. (Granted, these aren't the only options, I'm just fishing.) Of the following two choices, which would you lean toward:

Option A - Upgrade your Nortel gear to Succession 1000Ms and stick with Nortel for VoIP

Option B - Migrate to an entirely Cisco VoIP solution

I know there are lots of other possibilities and variations and these aren't our only two options by any stretch, but what would you do if these were your only two options?

 

[johnpoole]

Option B - Migrate to an entirely Cisco VoIP solution
if i had to go just voip with one vendor, i would not spend any money trying to build a second rate voip system. money spent on equiptment that will do everything you want now as well as 10 years down the road. it will of course take a few dozen upgrades to stay current for a decade, but you will not have to through it out the window and change vendors with a cisco solution. nortel may get up to speed, but cisco is already there.. it is very hard to find personal that know both, data guys hate ld 90 (nortel routing) and very few nortel guys even want to learn cisco. instead of having two products, with two sets of experts.. for a pure long term voip, as they say here in the south, don't put lipstick on a pig, bite the bullet and spend the money... btw, i would never recogmend opt 11's as a reliable switch. 61 or 81c, dual everything, i can swap cpu's hd's etc mid-day, and no one knows

john poole
bellsouth business
columbia,sc

 

[NitramTELEBOY]

Well my 02 is...
Cisco ICM is not to be confused with Cisco PBX offering.
The ICM product is tops and works with say Avaya as well as it's own switch.
Now for TDM and features and call center, Cisco switch isn't top of the line.

Nortel is very robust and sturdy, reliable but from techs I speak with- say it's not easy to program.

 

[johnpoole]

your 100 percent on that, it takes a well versed tech, if you add symposium, callpilot, voip, miran, mica etc it can get very complex.. it's not hard, of course i've been programing nortel for 20 plus years, and only started cisco, maybe 10 years ago. mitel, avaya toshiba tie fujisti rolm simmions etc etc etc.. guess being old makes for a long list

john poole
bellsouth business
columbia,sc

 

[Sympology]

I agree, Cisco. It's far easier to get someone to work on Cisco gear than Nortel. On top of this, Nortel have a habit of being slow and clumbersome when it comes to latest trends updates etc. As for compatability. well.....?

As for JohnPoole, is ther actually any phone system you don't know? Your name pops up everywhere! Actually, it's nice to find people like yourself, to many people tend to get stuck supporting one type of system, so never have chance to compare.

Stu..

Only the truly stupid believe they know everything.
Stu.. 2004

 

[phoneguy55]

My friend just migrated from all nortel environment to all cisco. Now he is looking for a new job. It works (in his words) "most of the time". The real problem I have with the cisco solution is windows. I hate the fact that my PC runs windows and now you want my PBX to run it. Come on. The patching is enough to make you kill yourself and what about viruses. You now have to worry about that. Also, rebooting, every time you make a major change you need to reboot the dam thing. IMHO, I wouldn't touch the cisco solution until they go with a Lynx platform. With that said, I am not against VOIP. I use IP trunking to connect all of my Avaya Definity PBX's and I have some IP phones. There great, but people are use to phones working 100% all the time, with cisco expect less. If you have multiple sights IP enable you Nortel equipment and set up IP trunking, because that is where the real $$$ saving is anyway.

Don't forklift your switch, upgrade to enable VOIP.

This link may help you decide.

http://img282.imageshack.us/my.php?image=realization1zq.jpg

 

[jneiberger]

phoneguy55, it sounds like your friend didn't have the necessary training on the system to make it work correctly. Did he install the system himself or did he work with a VAR?

BTW, a Linux version of CallManager is coming in the near future.

 

[phoneguy55]

jneiberger,

Not sure about the training. But he has sights throughout the country. They were installed by a cisco reseller. He would not have been able to do all the install by himself.

Once we see a linux verison my dislike for the cisco IP phones may change. Until then, I will stay away from any Windows PBX.

The other thing I don't like is the number of interfaces for changes. In the Avaya world there is 1, ASA, all changes are done in one place. With Cisco there are many, this is a pain.

Here is something everyone should read. These issues just aren't there in the Nortel/Avaya world.

http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/story/0,10801,103240,00.html?source=x73

 

[jneiberger]

I have heard that some sort of tool is in the works to address this issue, as well, but I don't know any details or when it's going to be available.

 

[johnpoole]

phoneguy has a point, it's not easy to find voice techs that are that good with cisco, and data techs don't very often make decent voice techs. next time you have a server problem, try to find a tech that will fix it without a reboot. in the nortel forum i've replied to data techs that "have already rebooted the 81" and the problem is still there. fyi, i have never rebooted a working voice switch because i couldn't find a problem. usually it creates way more problems then it could ever solve. services that don't auto start, background routines try to run while a lamp audits are trying to update.. etc etc.. for now it's just two different ways of thinking

john poole
bellsouth business
columbia,sc