Non-paying customer 5

[cian]

Hi guys,

The web designers nightmare happened to me ... i've a client who won't pay his bill. The amount is small, only Eur100 but it's the principal that counts.

The question I have is what options are open to me?
I have a contract etc but for the amount involved it's not worth taking legal action (+ he's in a different country so it's harder & more expensive).

Should I forget about it and move on or should I find some way to spread the word that this guy is untrustworthy so that other designers don't fall into the same trap?

All suggestions welcome...

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[DaRNCaT]

I had the same thing happen to me, to the tune of $6000NZD, I took the guy to court, got awarded the money and damages, he still hasn't paid and has put all his assets in his partners name, so I can't reposess anything to get my money back, so I'm taking it as a tax write-off, not much else I can do.
I don't recommend you bad mouth the guy, as you put yourself in the position of libel, but I sure as heck told the local design crowd just quietly that this guy was to be made to pay up front if he approached them to do work.

Even contracts won't cover you unless you insist on money up front. If someone strikes me as a dodgy prospect I insist on half the money up front before I will even start on anything now. Only long term customers get the benifit of billing on completion of work. I suggest you set up the same deal for yourself, and insist on some of the money before you start the work and on going progress payments.

I don't think it's worth chasing this guy too hard, but send bills every month, and just quietly harrass him - in the most legal manner- billing and over due notices etc, also if you can find someone in the same country/ area as him to "pay a call" and ask him to arrange to pay the money off- sometimes being asked face to face can guilt people into paying their debts. (I'm not suggesting heavy tactics here, just a business like approach)

If there is any way you can "undo" the work you have done I would suggest you do it too, until such time as the bill is paid, the person has no legal rights to use what you created, so if it was website work and you have access to the website, go remove the work you did.

Good luck.


Sometimes, when my code just won't behave, I take it outside and make it listen to britney spears music, and when it comes back it's really well behaved. I wonder if it's suffering from post tramatic stress syndrome now..

 

[ChrisHirst]

thread at High Rankings about non-paying clients.

some good information and suggestions.



Chris.

Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?

http://www.candsdesign.co.uk

A website that proves the cobblers kids adage.

http://www.cram-system.com

Nightclub counting systems

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

 

[tviman]

I understand the part about being in another country and the expense of legal action hardly being justified but consider this: if word gets around that you're an "easy mark", then you'll run into this more and more.

I have a friend who owns a grocery store. He prosecutes every shoplifter - regardless of what they stole - even a candy bar. i asked him the same question - is the cost of legal action worth it? He replied that he didn't want it known that his grcoery was soft on shop lifters, regardless of the value of the items stolen.

Just a thought....

There's always a better way. The fun is trying to find it!

 

[cian]

Thanks guys, that's good information, helps a lot.

I won't pursue too hard but continue what I am doing, a paypal reminder every 7 days with an email once in a while to politely remind him it's overdue.

All I did was a site recode, so I didn't lose much really, what I learned doing the job was worth the money I lost ;-)

Thanks again!!

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[derwent]

I had this happen to me a while ago. I removed the website put placed a single page their instead with the large bold text centre screen

"Due to non payment of bill, this website has been removed until further notice."

He had no choice but to pay up as all of his present and possible customers saw this message which looks very bad on him!

 

[cian]

Thanks Derwent, unfortunatly I never had access to his server so that's not an option for me. A good tactic though and one i'll remember for future.

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[newyorkny]

Cian,

Move it from the email realm: send him a registered mail with your demand for payment in it.

It's far too easy to ignore an email. -- NY

 

[cian]

Good suggestion newyorkny!! I wouldn't actually have thought of that (I do everything by email!!)

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[Wullie]

Thanks Derwent, unfortunatly I never had access to his server so that's not an option for me. A good tactic though and one i'll remember for future.

Contact his host. Explain the problem to the host and provide any evidence (e-mails etc) that you can. If the host doesn't take action, contact their upstream provider with the same information. (Be sure to tell the host that this is the next step)

Hope this helps

Wullie

http://www.freshlookhosting.com

http://www.tutorial-world.com

http://www.freshlookdesign.co.uk

The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The leader adjusts the sails. - John Maxwell

 

[GUJUm0deL]

Contact his host. Explain the problem to the host and provide any evidence (e-mails etc) that you can. If the host doesn't take action, contact their upstream provider with the same information. (Be sure to tell the host that this is the next step)

Hmmm, not sure this would work. I mean, I understand the situation here, but I don't think any hosting company would get in the middle. After all cian's non-paying customeris paying the hosting company.

I don't think there really is anything that cian can do here. Aside from asking half payment up front and half upon deliverance of the project for his next client, not much else is left.

Unfortunatly, this isn't all that uncommon. I had this happen to me. On my very first professional website. The client gave me the run around for three weeks, until I threatened her with legal action. (I wasn't really gonna take it that far, after all the payment was low and the court fees would have been higher then the fees). But the client didn't know, I gave her my poker-face and she flinched. She paid, and then from that point on, I ask for half payment up front, half upon completion.

[sub]
____________________________________
Just Imagine.

http://www.imajinarts.com

[sub]

 

[Wullie]

I have a contract etc

Contact his host. Explain the problem to the host and provide any evidence (e-mails etc) that you can. If the host doesn't take action, contact their upstream provider with the same information. (Be sure to tell the host that this is the next step)

Hmmm, not sure this would work. I mean, I understand the situation here, but I don't think any hosting company would get in the middle. After all cian's non-paying customeris paying the hosting company.

Trust me, any decent host will take copyright infringment very seriously. If they don't, you go upstream and then their upstream provider will put pressure on the host. Considering the host can get all of their servers shut down for this, I think they would comply with any requests.

Cian,

Mail me, you have my details. I'll help you with this if you want.

Hope this helps

Wullie

http://www.freshlookhosting.com

http://www.tutorial-world.com

http://www.freshlookdesign.co.uk

The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The leader adjusts the sails. - John Maxwell

 

[cian]

Thanks for the info and advice guys.
Actually in the contract I had 33% payment upfront, 33% when the first draft goes live then 33% on delivery of final files. The guy seemed such a decent bloke that I didn't enforce this. Lesson learned.

Wullie - i'm just leaving for a weekend away, i'll try to mail you before then.

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[mars19301]

I found in the past that a letter or two from my lawyer is a small price to pay for the payment usually gained. Typically the second letter is We intend to bring suit unless payment in full is received by (specify date)".... and then do it.

BTW, I call uncollectible amounts tuition.

Jim