New wiring standards 2

[pcamronnie]

What do you guys think about what will be coming down the road for wiring in the closet. I am constantly fighting with the IT side about wiring, their messy patch cables and the amout of space this takes up vs nice neat 66 or 110 blocks. As far as space is concerned patch cables and racks take up a lot of space.

Patch cables per developed in the old days due to limited resources. You had to move the connections from one port to the other for time shairng or becuase the cost of the switches and routers were so expensive. Today all connections and conected devices are on all the time so I am wondering what the need for patch cables is for.

Is there a better way to connect these to the voice or data network? Cables drooping all over th eplace and loose conenctions are a constant problem for data networks. Voice networks on 66 or 110 blocks don';t seem to have near the problems.

What about fiber? Since the cost for fiber and fiber network cards hase come down perhaps that will replace the copper networks for data?

What do you folks think is the next big wiring phase to come along?

 

[jrgood0852]

Fiber to the desk. Eventually every run will be fiber. I know Cat. 8 is coming along for copper. We'll see. It will get interesting.

Always look out for the next guy because it may be you!

 

[montyzummer]

Pcamronnie WARNING WARNING , a nice chap called ivnortel started a debate like this and it nearly caused WW3 ...you have been warned

APSS (SME)
ACSS (SME)
ACIS (UC)

 

[jrgood0852]

LOL...........we need to have fun with this! Glad to hear it!

Always look out for the next guy because it may be you!

 

[EaglePromo]

I would like to know more about what might be coming down the line for cabling. Is CAT-7 available?

 

[EaglePromo]

Lets say for a brand new installation for data would you recommend a CAT-5e, 6, 6(a) or now Cat-7? I saw that Cat-8 is now in development. This would be with all new P.C.s

 

[montyzummer]

It all depends on your backbone network switches and what speed you want to deliver to the users your budget and the environment , example if you are a small outfit and run 10/100 back bone switches , you will be ok with Cat5e , any thing above a 50m run with Cat5e and you are going to degrade a 1gb speed so if you are 1gb or above you will be requiring Cat6/7 , if you have the budget it always makes sense to future proof so in an ideal world fiber to desk with media convertors in the PC`s (only trouble is if you are require poe this does not work)so lot`s of variables.

APSS (SME)
ACSS (SME)
ACIS (UC)

 

[budbyrd]

I just assumed it will all be wireless.... except the fiber to the WAP.

Think twice, speak once~~!!~~

 

[IPGuru]

the reason for a patch panel is so that moves can be made easily by the in house tech
it also means that sockets can be re-provisioned for different functions at will (data, telephony, whatever next) + most sites will (hoplfully) have far more outlets per desk that are actually required.

block 66/krone/whatever punch down wiring may take up less space but require a more skilled person to make the wiring change with a greater risk of error


A Maintenance contract is essential, not a Luxury.
Do things on the cheap & it will cost you dear

 

[jrgood0852]

All good stuff.....this thread will be around a long time!

Always look out for the next guy because it may be you!

 

[davidwalters]

What's going to happen with the standard becomes fiber optics and all of

 

[montyzummer]

lots of power blocks for ip phones ............nice

APSS (SME)
ACSS (SME)
ACIS (UC)

 

[davidwalters]

My post got cut off.

I meant to say what will happen when everything is fiber how will handsets be able to operate without power either POE or even a digital se?

 

[Dexman]

With fiber to desk, I can imagine that there could eventually be a secondary copper connection that will only provide power to telephones and such. Either that or make sure that there are plenty of available electrical outlets near work stations.

I "FEATURE 00"

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze7n25t/

 

[davidwalters]

Yes this current mess of extra power supplies for IP sets is a real problem. Power strips are all over the place with overloaded outlets as it is for existing buildings that were never designed for all of this power hungry technology.

I think that your ( DEXMAN )idea of a dedicated power connection over already existing copper is a great idea and very workable. There will be a ton of copper left over when fiber takes over. This will keep all of these messy power bricks out from under the customers desks. Nothing worse than a big mess of twisted cables and power supplies under and hidden behind a desk. I have had a number of desks that were so heavy I could not move them to get behind them or they were bolted to the floor or wall.

 

[Westi]

Fiber to the desk? I have my cereal in the morning and not at work

but joking side

why would you want fiber to the desk when you can have easily 1000MB/s to your desktop and even 10,000MB/s on shorter distances, which application would possibly take that much speed to work. Moving AutoCAD files takes 20 seconds OK but what time saving is done with fiber and having it done in 4 seconds, the backend of things is still a harddrive that cannot deliver the data faster due to the restrictions on its interface (all speaking for now) and so copper is still a great way to go for 99.99% of all places.

I also have to agree with IPGuru that patch cables are for the less trained people as all is there on jacks (OK patch panel and jack but both pluggable) and it is not putting any pressure on the guy that moves stuff to remember that the brown wires are needed for PoE and that they can't be on another pin but they can be done properly and neatly.
There are nice sites that look great with patch cords if done properly but some people seem to save on the wire management and rather put that money into the bank for later. Big mistake as sites can look good for an extra 5% or less on money invested into the hardware in the server rooms and make life so much easier afterwards.

Also 66 blocks are so ugly and outdated (50 years in service, who would want a 50 year old TV or Radio just because it has worked that way for a long time) that it hurts me when I hear people mentioning that they still put them in, that was last millenniums technology and there are better solutions out now that are easier to handle and have better connectivity and less failure rates as the wires are not being moved right at the point where they are pinched for connectivity. ANY solution (BIX, Krone, Siemens or Chinese NoNamePingPong is better than 66 blocks)

I think this might start WW3 as predicted by montyzummer but that is my opinion, but I am open for any good arguments except that I am not budging on the 66 blocks being junk opinion.

Joe W.

FHandw, ACSS (SME), ACIS (SME)


“This is the end of the world, make sure to buy your T-shirt before it is too late"
Original expression of my daughter

 

[phoneguy610]

yes the only time i still install 66 blocks is when they have 5 of them already and we are adding cables. And even then we recommend cleaning everything up.

i don't see fiber to the desk but corning has a wonderful video titled "a day made of glass"

definitely worth a watch and shows what the future of technology could certainly look like considering the technology is already there not the bandwidth.

cat6 is rated to 10gigs though so I'm not sure why fiber to the desk would be necessary.

ddcommllc.com
syntelsolutions.com
Avaya/Toshiba/SyntelSolutions

ACIS

"Will work for stars

 

[davidwalters]

The savings o space inside conduit would be huge! Installing CAT-6(a) for example the diameter of the cable is almost twice the size of a CAT-6 cable. You could install a single fiber cable for lets say a group of work stations and then connect a multiport fiber switch to service all of the local work stations in a cubicle group instead of several runs of CAT-6.

Is there a distance limit for fiber vs copper, can fiber signals be boosted

 

[curlycord]

The Cat6 I use is same size as Cat5e

The whole idea of home runs is to not deal with hubs, they are in the way and just another cause for the issues that might arise.
Keep them in the riser room, not by the users.

Copper is 300 feet (for Cat5e) if I recall before boosting....fiber maybe 30 miles?
Cost of Fiber vs Copper and a repeater I am guessing copper still cheaper perhaps.

Patch panels are great, surprised to hear a complaint about them and so many clients with issues.
I cant recall the last cable issue we had.
If any issues they are most likely bad patch cords or switch ports.

Why a panel?
-so the client can move their own users, no rocket science there.
-so the jacks can be used for anything they choose

Things that help for messes, power supplies and issues:
-POE switches
-Quality parts
-Cable Management
-Take care when working with patch cords


I am with Joe on the 66.....we have been using BIX since the late 70's so in Canada the 66 is 30 years out of commission/date.
2 X 66 blocks that can hold 24 x 4 pair cables takes up almost the same space of 1 X 48 port patch panel, twice the size.

And Wireless is already the replacement.









=----(((((((((()----=
curlycord

http://www.curlycord.com

Toronto Canada

http://www.telcopc.ca

 

[NewNic]

Wire to the desktop? don't you mean wire to the wireless Ap's in the ceiling?

Who all remembers all the thoughts on ATM to the desktop back in the 80s, never happened, I think fiber will be the same