New Server Hardware Choices, Thoughts? 1

[wahnula]

I'm taking my vacation next week, great time to build a new server! I will be upgrading the OS from NT 4.0 to SBS Standard 2003. I want this machine to last for a long time, here's my gear choices:

Mainboard: Intel D955XBK:

http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/bk/

RAM: 2GB DDR2 667:

http://www.crucial.com/store/partspecs.Asp?IMODULE=CT2KIT12864AA667

Processor: Pentium D 820 w/ Zalman Flower Cooler:

http://store.yahoo.com/directron/pentiumd820.html

HDD: WD360GD SATA Raptor (2) in SATA RAID 0:

http://store.yahoo.com/directron/wd360gd.html

PSU: PC Power & Cooling TurboCool 425

http://store.yahoo.com/directron/turbocool425.html

Videocard: cheapest PCI-E, no graphics power needed :

http://store.yahoo.com/directron/saprx300se.html

Case will be well-cooled CoolerMaster Centurion. Backup will be daily w/ Veritas 9.1 & Sony DDS4 drive, on an Adaptec 2940U SCSI PCI card. The 40 GB backup capacity is the reason for the small HDDs, but they will be plenty for the small-office, 8-workstation file server, mostly Quickbooks, Exchange, Office applications. We've been living w/ a 9GB HDD for 7 years, it's just now getting full. No Web or Terminal duties, just lots of simultaneous file transfers. Network is mixed GBE and wireless.

I'm looking for opinions on my choice of gear and possible changes in hardware (or changes of direction) from a seasoned IT pro. I'm not, I'm the IT guy by default, PCs are my hobby. I know directron.com is not the cheapest, but they're local and I like keeping the little guys going rather than megastores. Many thanks.

Tony

 

[rvnguy]

wahnula,

What a way to spend a vacation!!!!

The Intel 820 D has a special variable speed cooling system that is matched to this proc...as these are suspected/known to run hot is it wise to immediately replace with an after market???

I do not know how critical your operation is??? but server duty typically calls for ECC registered memory to prevent error propagation...more expensive(slightly) but what does an error cost???

While possibly raising the ire of the INTEL crowd; I recently built the following small server (won't go into
all details here)

ASUS AMD Dual OPTERON Mobo..for cost and service requirements used onboard Video & Gb Lan. Great for small duty server(limited memory capacity) single site service

http://store.yahoo.com/directron/k8ndl.html

AMD OPTERON 244 CPU X 2

http://store.yahoo.com/directron/opteron244.html

DDR 400 Memory 4 X 1024 ECC Registered (their brand)

http://store.yahoo.com/directron/eccreg1gb.html

YeongYang Cube Case...separate mobo vs drive cavities = great cooling

http://store.yahoo.com/directron/yy0221bk.html

Antec thermal controlled fans(3 92mm, 1 120mm)

http://store.yahoo.com/directron/smartfan2.html

http://store.yahoo.com/directron/smartcool12.html

AMS EVR-4607-02 Mini Redundant Power Supply..redundant again for staying operational.

http://store.yahoo.com/directron/evr460702.html

Your drive selection is good for the reasons stated But you might consider other than RAID "0" for data integrity reasons.(again owing to the criticality of the operation)

Having used XEON's for servers I was pleasantly surprized at the performance..While actual chip speed is less AMD does something with bus doubling??? and moves the memory control off the north bridge to the CPU and this is fast!!!

If you are not stuck on INTEL this is a solution with an upgrade path (can use dual core OPTERONS) if your needs require it. The AMD OPTERON's are noted to out perform the INTELS on most fronts by a good measure. See

http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20040927/index.html

Have a great time on vacation!!!

rvnguy

 

[wahnula]

Thanks for the alternative approach. I have enjoyed working with the K4, K6, and Sempron machines, but am not familiar with their server technology. Pricier (2 procs more than 1!) but I have noticed AMDs are generally snappier machines. Thanks for the point about ECC RAM, I wasn't sure how important that was. And I LOVE the case!!!

Again a good idea with the redundant PSU. I'm a huge ASUS fan, have 4 or 5 including my laptop. Much appreciated advice.

Follow-up question: What RAID option do you recommend?

 

[rvnguy]

wahnula,

This is a more difficult question as I am not familiar with your orgs requirements. Having been doing this since the DEC PDP "6" and IBM 1105's I have seen some very ugly situations where much data was lost (thanks for old tape bkup & TOS) so I tend to be over cautious. MTBF's on todays hardware make some of this moot, but still you can have a failure.
If you are running MS Server of any level or NT Server older but time proven RAID in software is supported. I do not think that you need to step up to a hardware RAID implementation as you ststed your data volume is somewhat on the low side. Software RAID should be sufficient. Looking athow RAID 0 functions:

RAID level 0 distributes data across two drives via striping, which writes one bit of data to one drive, the next bit to the other drive, the third bit to the first drive, and so on. Because half as much data is being written to two drives simultaneously, disk performance is almost doubled. But RAID 0 offers no fault-tolerance: If either drive fails, all data on both drives is lost.

Being predisposed to worrying about data loss you can see where I do not favor this, I hope. RAID 1, on the other hand, provides hard-drive mirroring that instantly duplicates your primary drive--if either drive dies, you can continue working. Note that you reduce your total storage by half as the second drive in this system is a redundant live backup.

I have not used SATA RAID for any high intensity data solutions prefering the faster & time proven SCSI RAID approach. But I did utilize SATA RAID 1 in the system that I mentioned earlier but only for the OS and frontend applications, all data intensive (databases) are on a SCSI RAID addition. I do not believe that your requirements demand this ("We've been living w/ a 9GB HDD for 7 years, it's just now getting full."). Your selected RAPTOR drive should take you into year 2033 at that rate.

I guess you have to evaluate your situation, If you backup on a progressive daily basis and can stand possibly losing a days worth of data then RAID 0 might suffice. If you can't then I would opt for RAID 1. Hope this helps.

Also, no matter what platform you choose Intel or AMD this RAID information applies.

You should also brief yourself on license restrictions, especially if you are not running MS server software(which allows for dual processors) but only XP PRO as your server solution for file exchange as if you choose the dual core you essentially need two copies to remain legal.

rvnguy

 

[rvnguy]

wahnula,

After thought: your statement;
"I want this machine to last for a long time"

You might consider a dual CPU board no matter INTEL or AMD as this would give you an upgrade path when needs increase.

You atated that Directron was local...if you know someone there and they have a test CPU around that matches one that you might select you could have them setup and install the OS with two CPU's and then remove one and run with one until you find that you need a second. I have not done this but have read that by installing OS with two some specific parts are installed to support 2 and then when you add a second you do not have to reinstall. Food for thought...
I can not lay my hands on this right now but if you are interested I can locate and pass this along.

rvnguy

 

[langleymass]

Seagate drives are now having FIVE-YEAR warranties. I don't know about the other manufacturers.

 

[wahnula]

Rvnguy,

I have been snorting like Tim Allen at the prospect of Dual Opterons, the 939 platform looks excellent for upgrading, I thought it would be way more expensive. You recommended the 244, how does the 242 compare? I can get two of those in my budget.

A single HDD would be fine, thus freeing up more $$$ for dual Opterons (snort) and ultimately safer as you note. I do a full backup daily. I also doubt I would need the full 4GB of RAM right off the bat.

Since I will be running a 2940U SCSI card for the backup drive and have a spare 2940UW PCI card, should SCSI be chosen over SATA for the single drive? Thanks for your help and enthusiasm!

Tony

 

[wahnula]

PS: I will be running Windows Small Business Server Standard 2003 and plan on having a pro do the data transfer once the machine's built.

 

[PRPhx]

If you can afford it, go with SATA and RAID 5. You'll need a couple more drives, but with a hardware Raid 5, if a drive fails, pop it out, replace it with a new one and let the controlelr rebuild the drive. Save you a lot of headaches.

 

[rvnguy]

wahnula,

Let's see??? I did not recommend the 244 OP just that this is what I used for the build referenced.(note the Opteron is 940 pin & not 939). The only difference that I and AMD confer is the base clock speed. For what you have outlined this should be more than sufficient.

Single HD??? I did not mean to infer a single HD, I suggested RAID 1 (two drives mirrored and the capacity of a single as they are identical), but as you stated and I referenced, with a daily progressive backup or full as you stated, your downside is minimized and that you ultimately must decide the level of redundancy that you are satisfied with. If you feel secure with a single drive backed up daily, by all means forge forward.

As to SATA RAID vs SCSI RAID...I said that the box referenced is using SATA RAID for the OS and frontend apps, and SCSI RAID for the database storage. SATA seems to be quite satisfactory (SCSI is just a carry over from the big corp world, but a bit faster).

and PRPhx is correct about RAID 5, this is a Hardware solution that provides for "hot swap" capability, is more expensive, and the choice for mission critical solutions. But again at 7years for 9GB, you are good to 2033 with what you are considering.

Have Fun

rvnguy

 

[wahnula]

One last question...I'm ready to pull the trigger on the dual Opteron system (snort). Since the RAM is ECC and registered, is there anything to gain by going to Kingston or Corsair over the Directron "House brand"? I always preach buy name-brand RAM for desktops, shouldn't that rule apply here, too? Although I would LOVE to save the $$$...

 

[rvnguy]

wahnula,

Yes & No...the name brand is supposed to be higher quality through additional testing and culling. I am sure that Directron is not mfg'ing RAM. But you normally get what you pay for. So do what you feel is right here. While there are several levels of standard RAM (value, better, best, Overclocker, matched, ect.) there seems to be a couple levels of server RAM; ECC nad ECC + Registered. There has been no trouble with the House Mem so far and they warranty for a year vs a stated lifetime with name brand.

rvnguy

 

[wahnula]

OK, latest update...going w/ 2 Raptors in Raid 1, cheaper case & PSU (CoolerMaster Centurion, Antec NeoPower 480 or PCP&C turboCool 475), house memory. I just noticed the mobo ain't got no onboard VGA, is there perhaps a similar model that has onboard video you're aware of? Thanks for the help!

Tony

 

[wahnula]

Make that 3 Raptors in RAID 5...

 

[rvnguy]

wahnula,

My error, on video.....used low level PCI card.

For proper RAID 5 (to utilize the full functionality)you know that you will require a hot swap enclosure??? something like:

http://www.directron.com/dk0237ss.html

Happy Building

rvnguy

 

[wahnula]

Thanks, thanks thanks. There's no huge deal if I need to take the server down to exchange a PSU or HDD, it's not that critical to hot-swap, although it does look cool! One more (the last, I swear!) question: The Asus board has a 24-pin power connector, the PSU has a 20-pin, in the past I've just used an adapter. OK here too?

 

[rvnguy]

wahnula,

I am not an electrician....believe that the adapters do what is required. I used a native 24pin PS(had to buy PS). Maybe someone with more electrical prowess might have another opinion but I think the adapters will work.

I do favor an Active PFC (Power Factor Correction) type of PS for the reported smoother provided power, again not an electrician, just know that smoother, even power is preferred over a fluctuating source. More so for a 24/7 server.

" although it does look cool! " it is not about looks!!!!

FUNCTION! FUNCTION! FUNCTION!

remember "if you build they will come" seeking you when it fails.....

rvnguy

 

[wahnula]

rvnguy,

Just wanted to thank you publicly for your input. I am giddy with the new hardware, especially the case (once I figured out how to open it, the instructions on opening were hidden in a sealed box inside) and the mobile raid rack. Also the recommendation for dual Opterons was exactly what I needed to get the most bang for the buck, less than $2K and it should be a screamer!

 

[rvnguy]

wahnula,

Glad that you found some of it useful.
Great to hear that you are getting it up and ready to put it through it's paces. I would be inteested in what you find in MS SBS as I am only familiar with the full ver. and have only read the MS hype on SBS. MS unfortunately is not a complete 64 bit implementation yet on the server side.
Seems your vaction was full.
Maybe you can post back with details.

rvnguy


"I know everything..I just can't remember it all

 

[wahnula]

Having a little problem with SBS Premium install, maybe you could have a look here and help:

http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1093142&page=1