New Job Offer 2

[MDTekUser]

I recently went to an interview and received a job offer. I interviewed directly with the CEO about improving their web site as well as migrating some of their Access/VB projects to the .NET architecture. This seems exciting to me.

I will get a sizable raise in pay and the commute will be 1/3 what it is now. The commuting costs me 12 dollars a day, which really adds up. The one downer is that I really love the people I work with. They are the best group I have ever been with.

The one sticking point is that they want me to come in before the normal two-week notice. I'm a bit against that because I feel it's a common courtesy and an act of professionalism to give the standard two weeks.

But also I have been confronted with a set of extenuating circumstances that may justify giving 10 days instead.

1- My project manager bolted last week unannounced
2- The increase I was promised 2 months ago has not materialized
3- It was announced this week one of the main projects I have been working on has lost its funding and will go away.

Obviously this is my decision to make but I wanted to get some feedback from others.

I have also decided that I would be willing to be available to my current company as needed to help in any transitions.

 

[chiph]

I think those are good reasons for giving a shorter than normal notice period.

But don't say that. Instead, tell them you've gotten a fantastic opportunity that requires you to leave sooner than you normally would have, and that you regret the necessity, because normally you would have given the usual 2 week notice.

Chip H.


____________________________________________________________________
If you want to get the best response to a question, please read FAQ222-2244 first

 

[lgarner]

Always try to leave an employer on good terms. That said, you have no obligation to give 2 weeks notice, though it is customary.

I'd let the former employer know that you need to leave before 2 weeks, and see if your new employer would allow you to offer a little help to them via telephone or after-hours consulting.

If the new employer is too hard-nosed about it, that would be another "sticking point" in my mind.

 

[paterson]

I totally agree with chiph, all good reasons to leave early. It is also good to try and leave on good terms from any job as you do not know what the future hold. Who knows, you may have an opportunity to work there again.

Also, what's to say that you won't enjoy working with the people at the new company? Most people are great to work with given the right environment. If it is a bad environment to work, even the great people will have a tough time!

Have you asked your new employer if 2 weeks is an option? I personally have never had a problem with asking for that even when the company really needs me sooner. If they really want you, they can wait an extra couple of days. I usually term it in a way that lets the new employer know that they will get the same treatment later if I decide to leave them.

The other thing to realize is that a lot of companies, when you put in your notice of leaving, will "ask" you to leave early. There are many different reasons for this. Such things as security of company technology/information etc..., employee morale (especially if the project manager left recently), or even that it may line up better with a payroll cutoff date. So you still may be able to meet your obligation to both companies.

As you said, it is your decision. Good Luck!

 

[aarenot]

Many of you have mentioned that two weeks notice is customary. If you have an employment contract, written or verbal that states this, then you have an obligation to give two weeks notice. Some employment contracts entail an even longer notice period, and they should be honored. It is often considered customary to provide two weeks notice regardless of whether the "customary" time period is mentioned or not in your dealings with a firm. I agree it is the custom, if that custom is observed by the company. If a company does not observe that custom by ending employment upon being given two weeks notice, then they do not embrace that custom, so they can not expect wo weeks notice. One exception would be if they continue to pay the employee who gives notice, but tells them not to come in to work. It is not realistic for this to be considered customary, unless the custom is observed by the company.
I would personaly give two weeks notice anyway, and tell the new employer I have a contractual agreement with my employer to give two weeks notice. If the contract with the employer exists concerning two weeks noticem written or verbal contract, this is an accurate statement. Tell the new employer, you would incur a cost, and be in a position of violation of your employment contract were you to forego this notice. You do not have to disclose that cost, or even inform the new employer that the cost is not financial, but relational.

You do not always get what you pay for, but you never get what you do not pay for.

 

[paterson]

I meant to say one thing about a company asking you to leave early. Where I am in Canada, if you give any length of notice of leaving and then the company asks you to leave before that date, then they have to continue paying you until the date given.

 

[cupid11213]

I think that the decision to give a two weeks notice is very kind of you as most people will just leave. Saying that i believe your current employer will not be against you leaving a few days before once you explain to him that you need to do so. But if they ask you to not leave earlier than that try not to so that you will leave in good terms and can have the option to return if it doens't work out in the new job.

Godd luck with the new job and your decision.

Some people make things happen, some people watch things happen, while others wonder what happened.

 

[MDTekUser]

Thanks for your reply,

I am definitely interested in leaving under the best of terms possible. I'm going to negotiate something where I can perhaps devote some of my hours at first to my prior job.

I'm not sure of the exact terms of my current employment, however I am basically a subcontractor for a subcontractor for the government.

My employment is "at will", meaning it can be terminated at any time for any reason. Are there any guidelines with "at will" employment for leaving two weeks notice?

The interesting thing is that 3 months ago I saw an internal document that basically said the govt agency was wanting to reduce spending on contracts and now that is starting to come to fruition. Several people have already left or transferred.

 

[aarenot]

If you are a subcontractor, meaning you do not have taxes witheld from your check from the company you work for, (in the USA) then you are not an employee. In that case there is no customary two weeks notice.

You do not always get what you pay for, but you never get what you do not pay for.

 

[chiph]

In that case there is no customary two weeks notice.

True, but professional courtesy would still indicate that you should at least try and give them a 2 week notice. Especially if you don't want to burn a bridge or two.

Chip H.


____________________________________________________________________
If you want to get the best response to a question, please read FAQ222-2244 first

 

[aarenot]

You could put in for your vacation, get it approved, then give notice. Although if you are a contractor, you would not have vacation. Upon giving notice, you could offer to work the first week of your vacation.

I still think telling the new employer you are contractualy obligated to give two weeks notice, is your best approach. If you believe two weeks notice was part of a verbal contract, you are not being misleading.


You do not always get what you pay for, but you never get what you do not pay for.

 

[LadySlinger]

Last company I worked for, I wasn't under contract, but the company's policy was to give 2 weeks notice, otherwise they wouldn't consider you rehireable.

I've always gotten around this by giving my two weeks but taking any reserved vacation days the last couple of days of employment.

Good for you for getting the new job!!!

 

[KornGeek]

I strongly disagree with the idea of scheduling vacation time and then using that as your two weeks notice. While this may technically be the standard notice length, it will usually leave the same resentment as giving less than two weeks notice. By doing this, you are not giving them the adequate time to wrap up projects with you, get information from you that they might need for your replacement, etc.

I recently left a company where I had been working for several years. My two weeks notice was actually considered short-term notice, but things had begun turning ugly and it was time to move on. I worked many late nights in this time to make sure the transition went smoothly, and I have made myself available via telephone on weekends, during lunch, and after work.

Despite the fact that things had been taking a sour turn, we are back on good terms because of how gracefully I exited.

 

[aarenot]

I do not disagree with making yourself available after your departure, or during your vacation scheduled before your notice is given. I did say, offer to work during your vacation period, if they so desire. You would be wise to offer whatever assistance you are capable of, and they are willing to pay you for. During your vacation that would of course entail pay beyond the vacation pay.
I do agree with giving as much notice as is possible, and helping with projects that were scheduled with you before your notice. Let's be real, give the consideration that you would expect. If the company was going to close and new it 3 months ahead of time but only gave you two weeks notice, you would be justifiably upset. As long as they are willing to compensate you for your help, it would be childish to not offer it. That being said, get paid for it.

You do not always get what you pay for, but you never get what you do not pay for.

 

[KornGeek]

Another thing to consider when deciding how much notice to give is how they treat employees that they let go. Do they give them 2 weeks severance pay? If so, then it is fair to expect 2 weeks notice. If they simply escort employees out the door with no severance package, then they should expect others to simply walk out the door as well.

 

[MDTekUser]

Well, I did quite a bit of brokering over the past few days and got it worked out that I could give 2 weeks notice.

I feel so much better about this.

I told my current company that I didn't want to leave them hanging and would do whatever it took to ensure a smooth transition. I will be training another on-site programmer to get him up to speed on my current applications.

Although I was not contractually obligated to give the two-weeks notice, I think it's a mark of class to provide this anyway.

I feel very lucky that both parties were able to be so agreeable about this. I think my willingness to ensure a smooth transition helped to bring this about.

Thanks for the replies above. You all helped me to arrive at a much better solution to this situation.

 

[KornGeek]

Often, the new company is willing to grant that courtesy because they want the same courtesy down the road if you leave them. If they demanded less notice before you start, they could hardly expect a full 2 weeks when you leave.

 

[MDTekUser]

I decided to stay with my current job. They ended up giving me a raise. The job is very easy and I have it down pat.

The new job I thought was a bit over my head so I called them and told them that. It was a hard decision to make.

I need to get better before I make that step forward. I learned a lesson in all this...don't bite off more than you can chew.

I believe that before you take a programming job you should know it inside and out first.

 

[aarenot]

I think you made the right decision.

You do not always get what you pay for, but you never get what you do not pay for.

 

[chiph]

I decided to stay with my current job. They ended up giving me a raise. The job is very easy and I have it down pat.

You accepted their counter-offer?
I have my doubts about the long-term effectiveness of that. Usually what happens is the company assumes you're a flight-risk or disloyal, and start looking for your replacement.

Keep us apprised of your situation.

Chip H.


____________________________________________________________________
If you want to get the best response to a question, please read FAQ222-2244 first