New Horizons

[roropacific]

Hello:


I am in the Portland Oregon area. I went and met a sales man at New Horizons. I did not have the 20 grand he was asking. I asked him if he would quote me a price on just set of classes for a MCSA. He replied to me by this cute little emailed quote.

"I want to caution you, that our BtoB training does not include the Career Services that come with our Career Program. Some people think it is a cheaper way to get certified to just take the tests or take the classes on their own and then test, but this can be dangerous if you don’t have the contacts and don’t build current work experience while getting certified."

 

[dgillz]

So what is your take on this reply? Do you think this is ethical or unethical?

Software Sales, Training, Implementation and Support for Macola, eSynergy, and Crystal Reports

http://www.gainfocus.biz

"If the phone doesn't ring, it's me".....Jimmy Buffet

 

[monkeylizard]

Neither. It's a sales pitch. The fact that the response dodged the initial question only shows that this saleman's been trained to direct people to the full service option. Repeat the question (maybe 3 or 4 times) and you'll eventually get the answer to your question. There's probably some truth to the response, and like all professional services, you could do it yourself for less money. The trade off is always time and sometimes quality.

Roro can do this stuff on his/her own, but it's faster to pay to have access to pre-built professional contacts. The problem is that the true value of the service isn't known until after the purchase. That's the case with many services.

Still, 20K sounds steep for something from NH, though Roro didn't give any specifics about what's included. I'm finishing an MBA at a private, accredited university and it's about the same price as what NH is quoting.

Monkeylizard
Sometimes just a few hours of trial and error debugging can save minutes of reading manuals.

 

[dgillz]

I agree it is a sales pitch, but do you think the sales pitch, and how the person handled it, is ethical or not?

Software Sales, Training, Implementation and Support for Macola, eSynergy, and Crystal Reports

http://www.gainfocus.biz

"If the phone doesn't ring, it's me".....Jimmy Buffet

 

[SQLSister]

I think the business practice is unethical because there is little to no chance that the person will receive value that is even close to the amount spent.

"NOTHING is more important in a database than integrity." ESquared

 

[kmcferrin]

Well, calling it dangerous is a bit of a stretch. There's definitely no risk of personal injury or loss of life from just getting certs and not going through their whole $20,000 program for classes, cert tests, and whatever career services they offer. Is it unethical? I've always looked at sales people as being unethical. They're not always, but enough of them are that it's worth it to be on guard. If he were pitching it to someone who knew nothing about technology who was looking to take certification classes because they heard a radio ad saying that if you took the classes you could make $80k after getting certified, then it would certainly be predatory, and probably unethical.

As was pointed out though, $20k is a lot of money. You could probably get a B.A. or B.S. at a community college for that, and most of them have a career services office that will help you find a job. Not only that, but since it would be an accredited school you could get low interest student loans to pay for it (community college, not New Horizons).

 

[Cstorms]

Getting a community/tech college degree while studying on the side with used MSPress books to obtain your certs would be the way to do it, if you are lacking a degree and you receive only your MCSE and have little to no experience this could almost be a detriment as hiring managers could see you as a paper cert. 20k is a TON of money to be investing in just the MCSE and career services, especially if these "services" entail only a book of phone numbers and a couple unpaid internships at your local mom and pop store.

Do yourself a favor and go to college, get a degree, get some certs, find a place to be the tech monkey for a year and then bang out a decent job.

Cory

 

[roropacific]

Hello:

What was presented to me was the following:
"What is a computer", MCSE, MCSA and ComptiA.

plus how to write is a resume, interview.
Being funnled to a employeer for work expirence and eventually a job.

NH says they do not garuanteed a job, but they sure imply that in their writing. In addition, "I was shown a resume from another student" I do not think that is right. I am worried that he would give my information away to a "identity thief".
Maybe I am reading too much into this sales man for NH

 

[edfair]

Sure, it is unethical. Like almost every one of the private education schools that over promise and under perform.
Most hope you will sign up, become discouraged, and drop out. Then you find that the contract requires full payment.
The salesman gets a commission on sales. He isn't interested in selling less that the full package unless he is forced to. He doesn't know what is dangerous or not, except to his commission.

 

[MasterRacker]

I'd be very wary of any "career service" that gets paid by the candidate rather than the employer. If nothing else they can require payment then blame you when you don't land a job. I've taken classes from New Horizons in MN and thought they did a good job. It bothers me a little to see this type of thing associated with them.

On the other hand, a few years ago I answered and ad and interviewed with a "career management service". I left there feeling something was very wrong. I did some Internet research and was very careful to never contact them again.

After reading these links hopefully you are armed and wary:

http://www.asktheheadhunter.com/teeth20031013.htm

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/employment/haldane.html

http://ripoffreport.com/searchresul...+Haldane&q6=&q7=&searchtype=0&submit2=Search!

Disclaimer: I'm not accusing New Horizons of this, but be careful just the same.

_____
Jeff
[small][purple]It's never too early to begin preparing for [/purple]International Talk Like a Pirate Day
"The software I buy sucks, The software I write sucks. It's time to give up and have a beer..." - Me[/small]

 

[roropacific]

Hello All:

I appreciate the valuable feed back. I will just ignore the sales person right now and NH and since I do not have 20K at my finger tips. I am gald to see that NH on the whole is OK. Hopefully the rest of their sales force will be truthfull and not slimey.

Again Thank you all for helping.

 

[cdeer]

Another site:

http://www.newhorizonssucks.net/