NetWare is Dead ??

[robert90]

Hi!

I'm a CNE 5 in the UK. I've kept up to date with CCR's in the past, but will not go for CNE 6. The reason is Novell is still unknown over here - no advertising etc.. everyone see's Microsoft and goes with their products. Many new applications run on only MS servers which does not help!Being a CNE has not helped with my career and I have not got any benefits from Novell that are worth having, or reflect the commitment I have put into Novell. Why should I push a product that they don't even push ??

Bye Bye Novell, even though your products were always better (only nobody knew that!!). Anyone have any comments ??

Rob
Norfolk - UK

 

[mark01]

I'm in a place where they still used Novell in a lot of places. Of coarse, Novell's corporate headquarters is in this state, and there are a lot of die-hards that will support it to boost the states economy.

I still see jobs wanting CNE's. Although I've applied to almost all job's that require CNE, and I'm a CNE 5, I haven't gotten any yet.

Our company itself was mostly Novell, but we are trying to get rid of it. Still have a few Novell servers.

As for me, i will upgrade my CNE. I feel it will be beneficial for me because of the amount of diehards in this state. Of coarse I will favor my Microsoft cert over my Novell cert.

 

[TheLad]

My company has in excess of 400 NetWare servers scattered around the UK.

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"It's true, its damn true!"
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[TheLad]

I would quite like it if my company ditched Novell for Microsoft, at least I am guaranteed a contract renewall for the next decade or three!! Them NetWare servers are too damn reliable!! At least with MS you get the fun of virus infections (MSBLASTER!!) and crashes every few days or so!

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"It's true, its damn true!"
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[marvhuffaker]

While I was working as an employee for other companies, my salary jumped by about $20k per year for the first 4-5 years after I got my CNE. I started out at a small town network company and worked up from there into the enterprise. It (the salary) leveled off in about the 5th year. But at the time, it was much higher than the salary of any MCSE I've ever talked to. (Now I'm independent, so it's not as simple to define).

So to say you never saw any benefits from CNE, I say B.S. You got to make your own destiny, you can't expect Novell to come kissing your butt just because you got their cert. If you like Novell products as much as you "claim" to, go out and find a company that uses it and start enjoying your career for a change. That's what it's all about. And don't expect to jump in at the top. Start small and work up.

Marv

Marvin Huffaker MCNE, CNE
Marvin Huffaker Consulting

http://www.redjuju.com

 

[SuperDaveDCF]

Netware may not have a big following in the UK but I wouldn't ditch it just yet. I'm sure you worked too hard to give it up. Even if you just take the upgrade exams, it would be worth it.

Novell still has some large clients in the states. If I'm not mistaken the US Postal Service has the largest documented tree.

The US market is flooded with unemployed MCSEs and they keep pumping them through college and training schools. Something tells me that there will come a time when Novell admins will be in demand again. And then you can write your own ticket.

 

[DrGreen26]

I am seeing an influx of requests for Novell training in recent months. Kind of odd how that is coming about, but hey, the best worlds to work in have both. Its unfortunate that most employers dont understand the benefits of using divers NOS's, ie Novell, Linux/Unix, MS. I will keep my CNE up to date, even if I never use it again. I have too much invested in it to let it go by the way side. Besides that, I am also planning to work on my MBA in CIS which should open more senior level doors. In doing this, I hope to achieve that goal of being able to work in a corporation where Novell and Linux are at the forefront, with MS only being used in small applications. Novell for file, print and Security, Linux for large Database apps, and MS for small app servers. Use E-directory to tie them all together. Use SUS on The MS server to push polices or ZEN Works..now that is an interesting thought.

Hehe, lots to think about and so small a world..


Mark C. Greenwood, CNE
m_jgreenwood@yahoo.com

With more than 10 years experience to share.

 

[iolair]

I have just installed my first Windows 2000 Server. I had to, because Norton Anti-Virus requires it, and Lotus Domino/Notes requires it. Neither Norton or Lotus support Netware anymore.

I still have one Netware 3.12 server running, and one Netware 5.1 server running. If I were to go all Windows servers, it would take ten servers to do the job one Netware server does. Yes, I'm afraid that Netware is going the way of OS/2, but, as long as my Netware keeps running, I'll keep using it, and I'll use Windows only on what I have to use it on.

I have to reboot the Windows Server once a week. My Netware 3.12 server has been up and running for over two years now. Need I say more?

Iolair MacWalter

 

[DrGreen26]

What you need to do as an IT person is show cost justification. You dont realise how many large corporations use Netware. Heck, just the other night there was a guy on the news from the Fed stating that Microsoft and your basic linux is not secure and he hit on specifics like SCO, and Red Hat, but never mentioned Netware or SUSE. So I guess if you go all MS, are you yourself willing to put in the hours required to keep it running and have to deal with constant re-boots to clean up the memory. I have been in this industry far too long and I hate it when I see a business get rd of netware, what happened to co-exisintg systems integration, or are we as IT folk too caught up in the business of saving our jobs let alone making a statement.

I'll also add that since MS had a lot of empty promises, Novell as well as LInux are gaining ground and MS is losing...its a reality folks, read the traderegs...

My two cents worth..

Mark C. Greenwood, CNE
m_jgreenwood@yahoo.com

With more than 10 years experience to share.

 

[lgarner]

Mostly true, but SUSE is a Linux distribution, like RedHat, Mandrake, etc. A vulnerability which affects Linux most likely affects all major distributions. A problem with a vendor-specific package (such as the one in SUSE's 9.1 Live Eval CD) would be vendor-specific.

Yes, NetWare tends to be very secure when you're talking about remote access. It also doesn't provide the services that are found in most modern OSes. The server's inability to remotely mount another server's volume is an example. Such a feature does open potential security concerns, but is often required for efficient operation. The days of the single, file-and-print-only server are over. There's a tradeoff with that.

As for local console access, NetWare is sorely lacking. Any one with local access is "root". The only access restriction is the locking screensaver. Also, every application running on the server is also "root". There's no chroot or "run as" capability.

Remote console access is no better. A single password and you're in- no per-user restriction unless the screensaver is activated.

After 15 or so years of working with NetWare, I've grown to appreciate its reliability and performance. But we need to differentiate between "Novell" and "NetWare". NetWare is a product, and Novell makes some other very good ones: GroupWise and Zenworks come to mind. I think that the SUSE acquisition is the best move that Novell has made in years. Moving the NetWare services to Linux will bring out the best of both. Maybe NetWare as we know it is disappearing, but Novell certainly isn't.

 

[iolair]

Novell could really make a huge difference if it would do one thing - make the new Suse Linux server act just like a Netware server. Seems to me some of it would be simple - just make aliases for the console commands. Other subsystems might be more difficult, but if you could buy the Linux software and have it work and look like Netware, then I think people would buy it. First off, Linux doesn't require the hardware Windows Servers do, and secondly, all that Novell training would still be good and current. Also, if you could make the Linux server look like a Netware server to the clients, then no reconfiguration of clients would be necessary. Just my opinion, of course.

Iolair MacWalter
CNE since 1994

 

[lgarner]

What console commands? NetWare's not an application server, there's very little done at the console. NetWare's functionality bears little resemblance to Linux.

In my opinion, Novell should do exactly two things:
1. Port NSS or something similar to Linux, maybe adopting the current acl project.
2. Enable Client32 to connect seamlessly. I completely aggre with you on this one.

Anc, for the love of all that's holy, leave the rest of Linux alone! Linux is doing fine and doesn't need Novell; rather Novell needs Linux.

Novell can add all the value that they like, but as soon as they make SUSE incompatible with the rest of the Linux world in any way, they will become completely irrelevant in the IT world and people will finally give up on their "turnaround" attempts. This won't be hard for them as long as they don't try to pretend that they're still the big dog in networking.

Since this forum is about certification, I'll get a little more on topic: I also have not renewed my CNE for version 6, but I think I will now that Novell has deeply discounted the study materials. My current employer has only one NW5.1 server left, and I'm starting a new job Monday at a much larger company which completely eliminated Novell products a couple of years ago. The CNE is hardly a priority for me, but I'll probably keep it for another version or two and see how Novell does with Linux.