.Net Training Program - Unpaid

[cyclegeek]

I have a potential 'opportunity' to get into a training program offered by a firm called SetFocus and I'm feeling a little conflicted.

Here's the deal:

If one gets in, go thru a 13 week, full time training course in VB.net and some other stuff. When done, SetFocus sets you up with a job and one year from graduation you start paying back $15,000. Their pitch sounds really good - but do I really want to be without a paycheck for three+ months, AND have another $15,000 loan to pay.

I went to Chubb a few years ago. They did diddly squat for me and ironically I was hired by one of their biggest clients. SetFocus sounds a lot more professional.

I've been programming for just about three years now (Oracle - PL/SQL, VB5/6, now using HTML, XML, ASP, JavaScript) and am definitely in the job market.

Does anyone have any experience with this sort of thing? Has anyone heard of SetFocus?

Another interesting point, I happen to have taken two trainings under one of their instructors and my impression of him is excellent.

Thanks for any and all responses - and my apologies if a discussion of this nature already exists (my time-frame for info gathering is very short).

Cheers,
cyclegeek

 

[pmonett]

I have zero experience with this kind of company, but one things bothers me : its where you say they set you up in a job.
Are you in the US ?
Do you really think they can find you a job in the current economy ? If so, is there any guarantee that your job will concern some things you did in your course (as opposed to carrying someones groceries) ?
They may be serious and all, but the pitch about them setting you up in a job sounds a bit farfetched to me.
Of course, I may be wrong and they may be just great all the way.

Pascal.

 

[jrbarnett]

I heard about training companies in the UK that did this: The way they did this was because the training company had an affiliated solution provider. After you finished the training course, you work for them for 6 months (or similar) on a fixed term contract. After that, you're out on your ear - because the next lot of students need their 'jobs'. The wages paid for this job was well below average for what they were doing, but it did give you valuable real world experience with the technologies.

John

 

[cyclegeek]

I'll post more info Monday night after my technical interview and exam.

My goal now is to speak to people who have gone thru the program and get more details about the companies and jobs they try to set people up with and what kind of money, too. To my way of thinking, if I can increase my rate by 25% then it would be worth it. They say their rate of placement for 2002 is 92%.

To answer some questions, yes I'm in the US, born here, yada yada.

Personally I feel like the job market is improving because there's lots of stuff on the boards, and I see more company web sites listing open positions versus a year ago when hardly any had an employment or career section.

Thanks for the feedback.

Cheers,
cyclegeek

 

[unixtechie]

Be wary of placement rates that claim such high numbers like 92%. The numbers are not representative of "real" jobs that have potential, growth, etc. They can claim it even if you get a burger-flipper job.

 

[varocho]

"If something sounds too good to be true, it usually is."

 

[Rougy]

If you're married and your spouse can help carry the load for a few months, the training might be an invaluable asset. I've worked with guys who went through similar training programs, and I have to say that they knew their stuff.

Some companies bank on that college degree, though.

Then there are other companies who are filled with tech people who snuck in "through the back door" like me, i.e. we weren't formally trained for our positions, but stepped in to fill a void and never had to step out.

If you like and respect that teacher you mentioned, I'd go with it.

I'm hearing a lot of talk about .NET, and the sooner and better you learn it, you might have a bankable edge in the job market.

-----
The death of dogma is the birth of reason.

 

[cyclegeek]

Varocho - that's a nice thought but this opportunity does not sound too good to be true - the problems are the clearly identifiable pitfalls.

The point unixtechie makes is one of my biggest fears. I don't think their people wind up flipping burgers, but I don't want to get referred to the same kind of deadend, sit in the same cube, code the same function in the same language for 30 years job that I have now.

Seriously - anyone reading this, if you have a minute to peruse setfocus.com I'd love to get as much input as possible.

Here's something else that picks at my brain - most programmers who want to know how to do something get a book, or look up tutorial sites, reverse program examples and basically figure it out on their own. I would never go the kinds of training's my company pays for if I was the one footing the bill. But I would pay for grad school if that was my thing. So how reticent should a programmer be towards payment for training programs? Would I go back to a Chubb Institute? No - because it's the European tour of programming - if it's September 1 it must be Java, if it's September 15 it must be XML.

Long story short - if a person pays for extra education, then they are making an investment in their career. But, how is the value of a training program calculated?

Cheers,
cyclegeek

 

[TheVampire]

Just as a note, searching on ripoffreport.com found no entries for SetFocus. Of course, a negative result doesn't prove that they are legit, but it is information. Unless they used to be known by a different name. Some of these fly-by-nights change their names occasionally ( and not to protect the innocent! )

Robert

 

[varocho]

$15,000 seems pretty steep to me. Are they guaranteeing you a job upon completion of the course? And if so, what kind of job (i.e., would it be real development or just maintaining someone else's crap code?) and what kind of pay?

 

[flapeyre]

For $15,000, I'd be expecting a job that pays $150K. Doesn't sound like that's the case.

If they're not on ripoffreport.com, I predict they soon will be..


"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward, for here you have been, and there you will always long to return."

--Leonardo da Vinci

 

[LesleyW]

Ok I had a spare 5 minutes so I looked.

First thing that strikes me is though $15,000 looked expensive, it's 780 hours of tuition. That's a lot - works out just under $20 an hour. My company's usual provider does a 35 hour course and this works out at nearly £40 an hour - $20 is a bit cheaper though I don't have a currency converter open at the moment

But then, does a practicing programmer **need** 780 hours of .NET tuition? Or does the 780 hours include time spent in job-searching tuition? Is that what you want/need?

One thing that would make me nervous about them is that they don't specifiy the price on the site. I generally distrust anyone who won't tell you the price up front.

Lots of smiley faces recommending them. If they don't let you speak to these people, run like mad!

 

[cyclegeek]

Wow - once again thanks everyone for helping me out on this one.

LesleyW - Yeah, if I can't speak to a bunch of grads then that clinches it. I forgot to mention that the rep I've been dealing with made sort of a big deal over the number of hours their career people spend with students during the course of the curriculum.

To date I'm still going forward with the process. Technical interview on Monday and lots of questions.

$150k post course would be.... giddy.

The Course Is Worth It If:

A job aferwards pays at least $15k more than I make now.

The Course Is Not Worth It If:

I cannot feel close to guarranteeing (sp?) a good money job afterwards.

Back Door:

Say I pass the tech interview and get in. Can I defer my enrollment to a later date? In all honesty, with my wedding two weeks hence and not having quite the money buffer I'd like I would definitely be creating hardship for my myself and my fiance. A deferrment option gives me lots of leeway for determining just how bad the job market is and an opportunity to further build up reserves if I do pull the trigger on enrolling.

Once again, thanks for all the input (I never knew about ripoffreport.com) and I'll post again when I have some more info.

Cheers,
cyclegeek

 

[chiph]

What would be the worse-case scenario? And could you survive it financially?

Chip H.


If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first

 

[Rougy]

I'd wait at least a year until after you're married. The job market is not going to turn around soon.

I'd also start thinking about ways that you could use what you've learned and go into business for yourself.

My two cents.

-----
The death of dogma is the birth of reason.

 

[GlenJohnson]

According to what I'm hearing, the economy is turning around, but it's going to be at least 6 months before the powers that be are confident enough to start hiring again. Did a google search for the company and didn't see anything negative. This is gonna be you're call all the way. Good luck.

Glen A. Johnson
Johnson Computer Consulting

http://www.johnsoncomputers.us

"I only know that I know nothing."
Socrates (47-399 BC); Greek philosopher

Want to get great answers to your Tek-Tips questions? Have a look at FAQ219-2884

 

[cyclegeek]

Okay - so, most of this thread is now moot, because I boffed part of the technical interview and therefore didn't make the cut. But, I'm not exactly teary eyed considering I couldn't have afforded to go without work for three to four months and I have the option of trying again in another quarter.

Here's the recap.

The place has Microsoft written all over from the framed letters from Bill Gates to the Bill Gates coloring book in the reception area. (Okay, so the coloring book is an exaggeration).

The technical interview had three parts: face to face questions from somone with technical knowledge, a 20 question (multiple choice) on-line test and a practical test to demonstrate string manipulation by coding up a sample application based on an example executable.

I wasn't nervous but I wasn't entirely comfortable exposing my huge lack of technical knowledge of VB. I had to admit to the interviewer that I only use VB about once a month and in reality I can go three months or more without opening up an editor for work. I primarily work in Oracle PL/SQL.

The first part was painful but okay. These were some of the questions:

1. Define object oriented programming.

2. What is the difference between object oriented programming and procedural programming?

3. Define encapsulation, polymorphism and inheritance.

The online test had code snippets and questions would ask for the result of execution. This was to test syntax mostly.

The practical part was to reproduce a sample application that demonstrated string manipulation. The sample app had two text boxes. Whatever was typed in the first box appeared reversed in the second box. And any number in the first box was represented by its string equivalent in the second box. I wasn't listening very closely during the instructions and didn't catch the interviewer's instruction to NOT use the strreverse function. Well, you can guess what my first step was. After getting corrected I kind of had an inkling to use an array but for the life of me I just couldn't remember any of the string manipulation stuff.

Now that I've been thru their process once, I'm certain I could go back and get in with relative ease, especially since I got close this time with absolutely no preparation and even a few efforts at self-sabotage (I made dinner and drank cocktails during the first logic test).

The answer to the remaining question, would the program be worth the time, effort and money is probably? I get the sense that they want a programer's programmer. They seem very entrenched in the Microsoft development community which can have benefits. This does NOT sound, feel or look like a programmer mill and I should know because I'm a Chubb graduate. Even though Chubb keeps a student on their toes I still consider it the European tour of programming (ala, if it's July it must be C++). There's something very attractive about focusing full time on one subject, one language, and becoming monomaniacally proficient in it.

Anyhoo - that's my story - I'll be checking back to see in anyone has questions or more suggestions. So far I think this has been a good thread with the exception of this post which is overly long.

Cheers,
cyclegeek

 

[LesleyW]

well you answered one question in my mind which was... they said they had a rigorous selection process and only accepted the best... and I wondered if they maybe just said that and then if you did get accepted you'd feel special and overcome with warm feelings so more likely to sign up

Seems my suspicions were wrong in that respect.

It **has** been an interested thread, ta cyclegeek and good luck in your endeavours.

 

[Veep]

Thanks cyclegeek! I have to admit that I was sort of glued to this one.
Good Luck!

 

[mymocha]

Hi, cyclegeek,

I'm just applying for setFocus's master training program and will have a technical interview on next Monday. But it really make me nervous. I think you know something about it very well. So I was wondering if I could get some suggestion from you. I would really appreciate it.

my email: tiffanyXL@verizon.net