Need a compiler and all its bells 'n whistles...

[marquitico]

I am a (shudder) Windows refugee getting my feet wet in the Linux world, and I am doing it by exploring various LiveCD distros to make it as painless as possible.

The one I'm using now, PuppyLinux, has some proprietary package distribution system, and no way to install software on your own (REALLY stripped-down Linux). I have no compiler and no make command, so I can't build from source code. So I can't install all this cool Linux stuff!!

I tried Slackware, which has an install script (doinst.sh) instead of make, but it doesn't work. When I try to compile something I've downloaded, I get:

checking for gcc... gcc
checking whether the C compiler (gcc ) works... no
configure: error: installation or configuration problem: C compiler cannot create executables.

Can anyone point me to a compiler and a make that are self installing (plus anything else that they might require, like GLIBC or whatever)? Precompiled binaries that don't need me to have a lower version already on my system, or something like that. Oh, and instructions, too, please.

I can use tar on tarballs. Rpm packages, however, don't unpack easily with this distro. (Can't figure it out...)

Thanks, everyone,

Mark
"marquitico

 

[zeland]

Why choose a liveCD over a regular distro? In my opinion, liveCDs are a good choice for 2 types of people:
1. Those interested in seeing how linux looks & feels
2. Those who have a fixed set of linux software that they want to use anywhere they go.
These people don't need/don't want to compile and install additional software.

To compile a compiler is really a chicken and egg story. During an installation, you should have the option of installing some development packages that would include a compiler and some common header files. If you didn't, then you could just install it from you installation media using whatever package management software that comes with the distro.

Being a newcomer to linux, you should really start off on a more "user friendly" distro like Suse or Fedora (some may disagree with this). Distros like Gentoo, Debian and Slack, are more suited for seasoned linux users/administrator as they lack alot of GUI wizards/frontends and must configure the system by hand under the appropriate config files.


--== Anything can go wrong. It's just a matter of how far wrong it will go till people think its right. ==--

 

[jstreich]

Zeland, PuppyLinux is a special LiveCD distro, it allows you to write changes to /home and /etc at the end of the disk -- that means you have a live CD that isn't static, but able to change. That is, as long as it's in a CD-R(W?)

Marquitico, sounds like you need the gcc development and/or g++ development packages... I'm shoked they aren't a part of the distro's default set. Use YUM or apt or other package manager to grab the latest version (and remember to grab libaries as well).

[plug=shameless]

http://game-master.us/phpx-3.4.0/

[/plug]

 

[zeland]

A liveCD is in no way a replacement to a standard installation to a HDD. The founding idea for a liveCD is basic usability & portability. A year and a half ago, somebody had already shown me a knoppix liveCD that could write changes to the end of a CD. However, due to the size of the CD media, OS installation and 2MB multi-session track overhead + user data, I was only able to have about 5 to 6 sessions before the disk was full. A liveDVD distro would be a good idea though.



--== Anything can go wrong. It's just a matter of how far wrong it will go till people think its right. ==--

 

[TrojanWarBlade]

Knoppix can support persistant home areas and software install in a number of ways and the latest version (4.0 due out any time now) is around 8-9 gigs compressed onto a DVD so surely it would have anything you could wish for.


Trojan.

 

[marquitico]

No sooner did I start this thread than the next version of PuppyLinux went alpha and includes a developer's section. This means that when the version becomes stable it will have an optional IDE for those who want it. Real Linux heads will finally be able to compile their own kernels (I believe that the current development environment for Puppy is Vector Linux). Those of us who just want to download kewl stuff will not be limited to precompiled binaries.

zeland is right about LiveCD distros.

Why choose a liveCD over a regular distro? In my opinion, liveCDs are a good choice for 2 types of people:
1. Those interested in seeing how linux looks & feels
2. Those who have a fixed set of linux software that they want to use anywhere they go. These people don't need/don't want to compile and install additional software.

My answer is, I actually fall into both categories. I am learning Linux on my own as I know nobody who will teach me, and with so much free info out here, I'm not gonna spend money on a class.

I also travel a lot but lack a laptop, so a stripped-down LiveCD distro with a static set of apps is perfect. I just borrow a PC, stick in my LiveCD, and off it goes.

jstreich, you're the only one who even touched on the topic of my question, although, as I said, it seems to be becoming moot. OK, so you mentioned gcc or g++ development packages, but can you tell me where to look for them?

I've downloaded six gcc packages already, but they all turn out to need compiling. I know I'm a newbie at Linux, and I've already said so. I don't seem to now how to put the right search terms in an engine so that I can find an archive of a compiler, binutils, glibc, make, and so on, that are self installing. All the packages I'm coming up with are source code. Like zeland's chicken-and-egg analogy, I don't have a make, so I went and downloaded one, but it needed me to make it with make!

YUM looked promising, but doesn't seem to like my distro.

Furthermore, the FAQ starts out unhelpfully:

Q. What is this?

A. A yum faq.

Q. Where do I find a repository to update my system which is running distribution <XYZ>?

A. We have no idea. Your distribution should maintain their own list on this subject. If they don't support yum but you want to use it anyway you are probably going to have to make your own repository.

Q. How do I upgrade my machine from release X to release Y?

A. We have little idea. If you are using Fedora, check out this guide written by Fedora Developers and Contributors. If you are using something else, try looking at their docs or asking on their mailing lists.

I just realized that what I'm asking is: if my distro doesn't have any of this stuff (and more and more bare-bones mini-distros are like this), how do I start? If this is a question that is so distro-specific that it makes no sense to ask an open forum, then say so. I can relate to that, and it gives me info I didn't have before. Please don't just give me the equivalent of, "Well, you shouldn't be using your stupid distro anyway. You should be using BlahLinux, instead."

Once I have even the most primitive versions of gcc and so on, I can upgrade them by myself. I always read all the READMEs, even the pages that I don't understand. I can follow complex procedure, so long as the instructions are explicit. I'm comfortable at the command prompt from years of DOS 5.0. I understand the directory hierarchy, and I can type complicated commands with multiple option switches accurately. I know the procedure for building from source tarballs; I just lack the tools. I guess you could say that I'm a solid Type II skier who is surprised to find that the Linux landscape is divided between bunny slopes and double black diamond trails with little in between. (Do you guys 'n gals ski?)

I'm frustrated by the amount of great stuff out there that is only available in source code, and I'm stymied by a Linux community that is polarized between do-it-yourself Linux for geniuses, and as-is, straight-out-of-the-box Linux for never-evers. If there is such a thing as a Linux wiki for intermediates, point me to it; I'll read it, honest.

Mark
"marquitico"

To the best of my knowledge, my distro is based on:

Mandrake 9.2
Vector (5, I think)
Slackware 10.1

 

[franklin97355]

If I were you I'd go to the forum on the distribution's site (there's one for puppy linux). Most of the live CD's are meant to use as recovery tools or learning platforms and as you learn most will install a local version of linux (it will coexist with windows if you need both). I don't know what underlays puppy but Knoppix is built on Debian.