Multicast deploying win7

[Leozack]

I've not yet had the pleasure of using win7 in mixed environments yet as I've failed to correctly get roaming profiles/policies to work with both xp/7 clients.

But once I get that working or have a 2008/7 native environment I'll need to deploy win7 clients. I know you can use WDS to follow the windows method of deployment (isn't that 1 a time?) or copy out an install.wim to each machine and expand that (1 a time) but what I'm used to is running ghost 8.5 corp and multicasting to 10-20 pcs at once images I've made of XP pcs that have been sysprep'd. Then I just go around putting the PCname in as they reboot and run minisetup. Job done, optimum time. What can I do for win7/server2008? Will WDS be able to be that efficient and quick/simple? Anyone have a better alternative?

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Leozack

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[IllogicallyLogical]

Windows Deployment Services does indeed support multicast deployments. See the following for detailed information about WDS.

- Windows Deployment Services Getting Started Guide

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc771670(WS.10).aspx

- Performing Multicast Deployments

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd637994(WS.10).aspx

Joey
CCNA, MCSA 2003, MCP, A+, Network+, CWTS

 

[Leozack]

Thanks - looks good, I'll read through it after work. Have you any experience in multicasting with WDS? Would you say the "install" approach MS always takes with deployment is quicker or slower than "imaging" deployment like ghost?
I've also noticed win7 images seem to start at about 25g ... that's gonna take a long time I'm used to 2-8g ghost images stored on the server taking 15-60m to deploy based on network speed etc. Having said that the other day I imaged 1 pc to another with ghost peer-to-peer and it said 25g of files on source pc so took a while to do. Booting pc up and properties on the drive it said 25g in use but properties on all contents said only 13g! After sysprep'ing it the size reported from disk properties went back down to 13g! Nooooo idea what was going on there ... never had that before, but wish it'd gone down before I imaged it!

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Leozack

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[Leozack]

Having browsed the multicast article I'm wondering ... anyone have any experience in "how much is too much" in the sense of when to move from unicasting to multicasting? I don't normally image out over 30 machines at once, and often it's more like 8/16. Would unicasting be ok or is that going to act like every client is a different image and send everything to everyone or what? hmmm

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Leozack

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[PScottC]

In 2003, I used RIS (the predecessor to WDS) to deploy images to about 150 machines at a single site in one day. The images were done unicast-based. Given reasonable segmentation of your network, unicast is just fine for 30 machines. Just don't expect them to be done in 20 minutes.

Multicast can bring a network to it's knees, if it is not configured for it. The reason for this is that switches treat multicasts like broadcasts by default. Which means that every packet of your image will go to every port on the network, including the ones that aren't interested in the traffic. Wireless clients will be effectively booted off that network segment and other systems may be impacted. This isn't to say that multicast isn't good... It's just that you have to be prepared for it. When fully configured, it's beautiful.

PSC
[—] CCNP[sub][blue]x3[/blue][/sub] (Security/R&S/Wireless) [•] MCITP: Enterprise Admin [•] MCSE [—]

Governments and corporations need people like you and me. We are samurai. The keyboard cowboys. And all those other people out there who have no idea what's going on are the cattle. Mooo! --from "Hackers

 

[Leozack]

Well how long would such a deployment to say 30 machines take? I've never used RIS or anything like that as it's far inferior to the quicker and better configured pre-sysprep'd imaging multicast method - other than if you have lots of varying machine types or software setups, and usually I don't, and a few images aren't hard to do. It also saved on all the MS mumbo jumbo. But 2008 and WDS may be better than say ghost 11.5 for deployment - but right now (assuming ghost works) I'm not seeing why, especially if it takes ages :/

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Leozack

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[PScottC]

I didn't say that the deployment I did was lacking sysprep. In fact the automation allowed us to walk away from the machine after it started and never look back. All the applications were pre-installed and the systems joined the domain and named themselves.

Now... How long will it take to load Win7 on a box? That's a good question. How fast is your network and how big is the image? For Windows XP, an image loaded with applications was typically 2GB. For Win7 your image will probably be between 9GB and 15GB. I think it would be fairly easy to extrapolate an estimate based on your prior imaging experience.

Given that both Ghost and WDS can do unicast and multicast deployments, I've never seen a performance difference between them. The largest benefit to MS is that it's free. The disadvantage is that there's a steep learning curve on WDS (driver injection, staging, etc...).

Over time, my philosophy on imaging has changed significantly. I used to believe in the large monolithic images, but not these days. Now my goal is to simply script everything. The reason is that patches and software versions change too often to maintain monolithic images. It's better to load the OS and have the imaging solution kick off scripts to load the latest patches and software versions from an easily maintainable software repository on the network. Everything should be done on the fly. You walk up to the machine, PXE boot it, select which "image" you want, and simply walk away.

PSC
[—] CCNP[sub][blue]x3[/blue][/sub] (Security/R&S/Wireless) [•] MCITP: Enterprise Admin [•] MCSE [—]

Governments and corporations need people like you and me. We are samurai. The keyboard cowboys. And all those other people out there who have no idea what's going on are the cattle. Mooo! --from "Hackers

 

[Leozack]

Sounds interesting. WDS would have to store all the MACs and such to handle that though right?
Also I don't need ot keep software udpated etc, WSUS will handle usual MS updates and other software doesn't need t be updated in that way and I just deploy an update via msi or startup script if I ever have to.
Since they're images I don't have to worry about driver injection cos I have an image for each hardware base (though you can set IDE mode to standard in device manager and then the image should boot on any pc really). If I'm just repair imaging a PC that's messed up I'll often just image it from the one next to it rather than the older (outdated) saved image - that way it's all uptodate already and I just sysprep it.
Sizewise I've had images from 3g to 10G using XP - on fast compress settings. The machines I've tried to image recently have said from 13-25G for XP for some reason (space taken on drive) and win7 installs I see seem to start at about 20-25G base install? hmmm

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Leozack

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[PScottC]

I can't find it right now, but I have seen documentation from MS stating that you shouldn't sysprep a system more than 4 times (I can't seem to find it right now... I'll repost when I do). If you are not careful about your current practice of using the nearest machine, you could have long term problems. Based on your post I'd say that you're seeing the out of date patches/sofware problem with monolithic images.

Monolithic images also take a lot of storage. On-the-fly system building means that you only have to store the OS, drivers, application installers, and scripts. When you deploy, it will always be a fresh machine, and not a sysprep of a sysprep of a sysprep.

On the image size note... I'm not sure if sysprep removes pagefile.sys and hiberfil.sys from the C: drive. Memory size of your source machine could cause these files to bloat (I recommend you check into that). Are you removing the patch backup files and restore points from the system before syspreping? And of course, don't forget that MS Office loads about 2-3GB of files. And last but not least, 64-bit Win7 takes almost twice the room of 32-bit.

PSC
[—] CCNP[sub][blue]x3[/blue][/sub] (Security/R&S/Wireless) [•] MCITP: Enterprise Admin [•] MCSE [—]

Governments and corporations need people like you and me. We are samurai. The keyboard cowboys. And all those other people out there who have no idea what's going on are the cattle. Mooo! --from "Hackers

 

[Leozack]

I know you shouldn't sysprep a machine "too many times" (though in a non analogue world where is there any reason 1 is different to 99 times? not like wearing out a tape) but I've never had a problem with that.

As for patching/software etc, WSUS handles patching a machine so I don't need to (and can't afford to) be maintaining repositories and scripts to run them anymore than I can afford to keep updating monolithic images. I mainly work wiht schools where I leave WSUS to do updates and updates to system software like flash/java etc I do myself via startup scripts. Software deployment is so random in education that maybe there'll be a convenient msi to do via GPO, maybe there's a handy silent installer, maybe it'll run straight off server, or maybe I'll actually have to locally install from CD on clients - you never know.

Storage of big images can be a pain, but hopefully they're investing in IT properly and having a majority of identical machines/laptops so that there are only a couple of images stored. Sizes range from 4G to 16G or so probably with winxp and all software installed. If I think about it after sysprep'ing I shutdown, boot off cd, and remove the big pagefile.sys. I'm not sure if it is done automatically or not otherwise. Hiberfil.sys isn't an issue since I don't use it and only since vista is it on by default.

I'd imagine deploying from WDS takes alot longer to get the PC up and running than reimaging since after deployment it then ahs to do all the scripts to install everything since the latest windows servicepack and your software or whatever? As in when WDS finishes pushing out over the network - it's not actually finished unlike an image - is it?

Removing backup files/restorepoints etc is a good idea - I tend to ahve sysrestore off on all machines anyway, but for backup files I know ms cahces every update and every msi installer but afaia you can't afford to delete those without living on a prayer?

Didn't know 64bit 7 took twice that space of 32bit 7. That's news. Howeverit's still remarkably smaller than vista having just upgraded a PC to 7 from vista (both 64bit) and made gigs of space by doing so ...

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Leozack

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