More or less? 7

[Dimandja]

I was explaining the finer points of OO programming, when I stopped and asked if I was still making sense. The answer was "more or less".

Although I understood the meaning of that phrase, it still grates my ears.

Is this phrase correctly used in this context? I have heard it a lot in similar contexts.

 

[Stella740pl]

You know,

Sense ± some finer points

Makes sense to me. More or less.

 

[SantaMufasa]

In my experience, when someone responds to a question with "...more or less...", it means they are either not listening to you or they have absolutely no clue what you are talking about, but in both cases are unwilling to admit their sad situation.

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)

http://www.dasages.com

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[UniqueFD]

I agree, Dimandja, in your context the expression doesn't fit well at all. I have heard it used (reasonably) well, though, when a general opinion is expressed and agreement is sought. for example:

Opinion - Julia Roberts' films are brilliant, aren't they? *
Response - More or less. I thought "Erin Brockovitch" could have been a bit shorter, but apart from that... *

I think it might be because you are referring to explicit details, to which the appropriate response can only be, "Yes" or, "No" - you are still making sense, or you are not - and they don't want to say "No".


(* For the record, neither point are my opinion, necessarily!)

Tony
___________________________________________________
Reckless words pierce like a sword,
but the tongue of the wise brings healing (Solomon)

 

[sleipnir214]

I think your audience was either saying either[ul][li]he understood parts of what you said but not all of it, or[/li][li]he understood all of it but not to the depth of understanding he would like to reach.[/li][/ul]



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TANSTAAFL!!

 

[Stella740pl]

I agree with sleipnir.

 

[tsdragon]

To me that is a perfectly acceptable use of the expression.
If I were you, I would be more concerned about the fact that I was apparently not making perfect sense than I would be about how the person expressed it.

Tracy Dryden

Meddle not in the affairs of dragons,
For you are crunchy, and good with mustard.

 

[Dimandja]

I understood exactly what was meant, the same as sleipnir explained.

My question is:

Although I understood the meaning of that phrase, it still grates my ears.

Is this phrase correctly used in this context? I have heard it a lot in similar contexts.

 

[Dimandja]

To be more descriptive of my question, if you take the expression "more or less" literally, it stops to make sense in this context (my opinion).

But as I stated in the original post, I know the meaning that is being conveyed.

 

[Stella740pl]

If you take a lot of things that are being said literally, they will stop making sense. Some of them (not all, of course), though, are perfectly correct expressions that add charm to the language.

 

[earthandfire]

My favourite reference shows:

One entry found for more or less.


Main Entry: more or less
Function: adverb
1 : to a varying or undetermined extent or degree : SOMEWHAT <they were more or less willing to help>
2 : with small variations : APPROXIMATELY <contains 16 acres more or less>

Unfortunatly, I agree with m-w this time.

 

[Dimandja]

Thanks earthandfire for that reference. Where can I find it?

Also, I don't get "Unfortunatly, I agree with m-w this time". Who is m-w, and what are you agreeing on?

 

[earthandfire]

Dimandja, Merriam-Webster Online

http://www.m-w.com/

more or less in the search box takes me to:

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=more+or+less&x=15&y=15

Unfortunatly, I can't spell unfortunately.

In a couple of recent threads, where m-w has been quoted, I have not been convinced of the accuracy of the definitions/explanations.

 

[CajunCenturion]

==> I have not been convinced of the accuracy of the definitions/explanations.

I would submit that the definitions and explanations are quite accurate, although not necessarily what you prefer. Language evolves, and we may not always like where it goes, but that is not the fault of the dictionary which tells us where it is.

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[Dimandja]

Oh, I see. Anyway, I needed to forward the link to a friend.

I agree with m-w on the second definition, because there is a reference point given to "more or less":

...APPROXIMATELY <contains 16 acres more or less>

The first definition has no scope, and I think this is the type of usage I dispute.

 

[earthandfire]

CajunCenturion, I was going to reply to your comments in the Different Than etc. thread.

Maybe I should have said:
I have not been convinced of the accuracy of the definitions/explanations.

I agree language evolves and I think that it is good that it does. The problem is that I haven't evolved as fast as the language and find some changes frustrating to say the least. In the other thread you cite Chambers as taking the more traditional approach - which is where I feel happier.

 

[CajunCenturion]

==> find some changes frustrating to say the least.

Me too.

Good Luck
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To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
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[AnotherHiggins]

The first definition has no scope, and I think this is the type of usage I dispute.

Like CC said, this usage is in place. That cannot be argued away.

But I respect your not liking it and not giving in to it. I, too, have adopted sisyphean battles that I know I cannot win, but which I feel compelled to fight anyway.

Just realize that it is accepted usage and that it is not likely to go away any time soon.

If I were you, I would be more concerned about the fact that I was apparently not making perfect sense than I would be about how the person expressed it.

Ouch. Retract those claws.

[tt]_____
[blue]-John[/blue]
[/tt][red]"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it."[/red]
-Mitch Hedberg

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[Dimandja]

<ducking... the claw/>

Function: adverb

You know, this is the first time I have seen a phrase declared as an adverb. ...'Maybe I haven't been paying attention.

 

[tsdragon]

anotherhiggins: You might have been the first to even notice the claws. At least no-one else said anything about them.

dimandja: <apologies><claws retracted></apologies>

It seems to me that scope is not a pre-requisite for the use of "more or less". The phrase itself provides the scope. If you can say:

"They were more willing to help" or
"They were less willing to help" then you can say
"They were more or less willing to help".

Since the pronoun is "they", perhaps one was more willing to help and the other less willing to help.





Tracy Dryden

Meddle not in the affairs of dragons,
For you are crunchy, and good with mustard.