Morally out of line!? 2

[DeanConsulting]

We are a small company with only 5 employees. We are all salary. I have been working there 3 1/2 years. Our office manager has been there for 4 1/2 years.

We have no policy manual. Bad, I know. But we cannot get the owners to make one for whatever reason.

The office manager's father passed away 2 weeks ago. The boss told her to take the entire week off. When she did come back to work they would not pay her for that week she was told to take off.

I have a problem with that! How can someone be so bad to not give someone their pay for loosing their father (or any close family member) -- and then lie about it and say that they did pay them but they must have lost the check.

Needless to say, the office manager quit. They offered to pay her for a month in order to help her out but they would not pay her for the week.

I have a problem working for someone like that and I want to confront the owner about it and tell him.

Does anyone else think that I am in the wrong for feeling like this?


---------------------------------------
Noble D. Bell

http://www.noblesoftware.com

http://www.noblebell.com

 

[paterson]

Well, After 3 1/2 years, I would think that you would be fairly close to the office manager that just left. So, assuming that, it is natural to feel a sense of outrage at how she was treated. It would also be natural to think that possibly the same treatment could come your way in the future.

That being said, I would also assume that after 3 1/2 years of working in this company, you would know how they operatate! Is this behavior something that came out of the blue or do similar, albeit of a lesser extent, things happen there?

Personally, I would look at things like this... If you are constantly questioning the decisions and actions of the owner, then you should not be surprised by this latest thing. Otherwise, I would think that due to the small numbers in the office, this type of situation probably has not happened before and the owner did not know how to deal with it.

Going forward, if you think that it was caused because the owner was not prepared, then approach him about getting prepared! I would confront him without confronting him! Lay it out that you would not like to see anything similar in the future and offer to help get the company prepared.

If things don't change or work out, prehaps this is just the incentive you need to leave if you are unhappy.



**************************************
My Biggest problem is that I almost always believe what I tell myself.

 

[Grenage]

Unless the Manager asked whether he would be paid or not, and was told "yes, you will be paid", I can't see a problem there. Different companies have different policies when it comes to compassionate leave.


Carlsberg don't run I.T departments, but if they did they'd probably be more fun.

 

[Welshbird]

I would have assumed there was a recommended policy from the DTI, but I can't find one anywhere.

It seems very short sighted to lose someone who had worked for 3.5 years for the sake of paying one week's compassionate leave.

I agree - you should try and find a way of suggesting the creation of a policy manual. I'd also agree that it is difficult to do without sounding confrontational.

Maybe you could offer to help? Possibly find a standard HR polciy document from the web as a starting point?

Fee

The question should be [red]Is it worth trying to do?[/red] not [blue] Can it be done?[/blue]

 

[vbSun]

Not being rude, but.

There are two options.
1. Confident about your abilities, quit now.
2. Not confident, see if you can take the office manager position that is open.

------------------------------------------
The faulty interface lies between the chair and the keyboard.

 

[LadySlinger]

So I take it that there weren't any benefits packages set up either? Usually bereavement falls under the benefits package, 3 days for immediate family, 1 day for extended (paid).
However, though it does seem unfair, if this was not included as a benefit at the initial hire or added at some point during the years of work, then they do not have the option to pay her.

Hard lesson that is learned, but it's always wise to ask about compensation if a business decides to be generous or not to expect pay in the first place.

 

[DeanConsulting]

The lying part is of more concern to me right now. The lied to the rest of us and said that they paid her when they full well know they did not. That was the whole issue in her quitting in the first place.

How does one get past the fact that they work for someone that cannot be truthful and honest with their employees?


---------------------------------------
Noble D. Bell

http://www.noblesoftware.com

http://www.noblebell.com

 

[sleipnir214]

Where is the lying part, again? I don't see that in your original post.



Want the best answers? Ask the best questions! TANSTAAFL!

 

[ecobb]

Are you sure they lied? What if the Office Manager lied to you? It could be that she just decided she didn't want to work there anymore, came up with a story, stirred up a big mess and then hit the road. People tend to do strange things just after losing a loved one.

Do you have any proof to back up or decipher which party may have lied? Her word against theirs is not (unless they've lied to you before) always that cut and dry. I'll bet if you talk to the owner, you may find a whole different side to the story.

Hope This Helps!

ECAR
ECAR Technologies

http://www.ecartech.com

"My work is a game, a very serious game." - M.C. Escher

 

[LadySlinger]

Where is the lying part, again? I don't see that in your original post

sleipnir - Its in the 4th paragraph down...don't worry I missed that part too.

Well, if this the case, either they weren't counting on the fact that she was going to spread it around or that someone in the office wasn't going to inquire. Really that's a confidential question, whether an employee received pay for a week off or not. It's her preference to share what they did or did not do...no one else in the office should be sharing whether she was paid or not. If thats the case, then do you all know what each others salaries are?

For any businesses though there will always be a degree of lying. I.e. whether the boss is sleeping with the secretary, deals made at the time of hire, etc. It all depends on where you draw the line of ethics at the workplace. If you expect a company to be honest at all times, then that's high expectations. Managers do this to avoid uproars in the office. Do you prefer to know 6 months in advance that you're being laid off or told that everything in the office is "fine" and that only minor cutbacks are happening. Meanwhile after 6 months, you begin to see a handful of personal begin to be laid off.

Trust me on, sometimes you don't want your company to be too honest with you.

 

[sleipnir214]

DeanConsulting:
I gotta go with ECAR on this. The story I'm reading comes across as excessively emotionally-charged and terribly one-sided. My intuition is telling me that someone has manipulated the reportage on this story.

I strongly recommend that you calmly and quietly contact someone with management and get their version of this story.



Want the best answers? Ask the best questions! TANSTAAFL!

 

[DeanConsulting]

I suppose the most simple solution would be to have the owner look at the check register and see if a check was written for the employee. If it was then everything will be resolved. Right? Possible, but this happend two weeks ago and if the check in question has been written since to cover one's behind then the check numbers would be out of sequence with the checks written to the rest of us two weeks ago.

It is really none of my business but I just want an answer to why someone lied and I want to know if I am going to get the same treatment if I loose a family member and have to take a leave.

I think that I am entitled to that much information, right?

Ps. There is much more to this than just this episode. But, I will not delve any further other than to say that the person this happend to is one of the most honest people that I know and the owner has showed that he can be untruthful and shady in the past.

This is a startup company and I am working here for about 1/2 of what I should be only because I have been promised more money and a handsome bonus once we get funded. The deal is that my part of the deal has been completed for about a year now and the owner's part (the funding) has yet to happen and there always seems to be some excuse or can you rewrite the software to make it better so I can show more investors.

I am getting very disgruntled and am looking for something else. Should I stay on here to see if he comes through with his part of the deal (its been 3 years) or lick my wounds and move on?


---------------------------------------
Noble D. Bell

http://www.noblesoftware.com

http://www.noblebell.com

 

[LadySlinger]

What happens a lot of times is that we can get caught up in office politics and gossip. The office manager may be the most honest person you know, but as ECAR state, people tend to do strange things when they lose a loved one.

Is the deal in writing anywhere? Or was this deal strictly verbal? If it is in writing, then you can calmly confront this owner regarding the issue. Then if he doesn't come through, within say 6 months, and you have adhered to everything requested on your part of the agreement, then you really want to begin looking for a new job.

Also, if he gives the excuse of "not enough money" and one day he upgrades from a Honda to a Hummer, then you know you're being screwed.

If this is someplace that you cannot continue with at work, IMHO then continue looking for something new and for something without "..after a year.." deals. Otherwise you will continue to get caught up in the office gossip and any negative thing can turn into a disaster, thus making yourself look bad.

 

[sleipnir214]

but I just want an answer to why someone lied

Wrong. You're asking the wrong first question. Your first question should be, "Did someone lie, and if so, who?"

You are running off half-cocked here and are likely to make a Career-Limiting Move if you are not careful. And as a general rule, those most likely to react badly to being accused of lying are those who actually are lying.

I do not know why it is that you have assumed that a possible difference of opinion or misinterpretation must be some kind of conspiracy, but your overall attitude about the company is probably a large part of it.

Park the attitude about your employer. Make sure that big head has the controls. Then find out what's really going on from multiple viewpoints.



Want the best answers? Ask the best questions! TANSTAAFL!

 

[paterson]

the owner has showed that he can be untruthful and shady in the past.

and

I am getting very disgruntled and am looking for something else. Should I stay on here to see if he comes through with his part of the deal (its been 3 years) or lick my wounds and move on?

Unless circumstances and your attitude don't change, then move on because this work environment is poisoned. You already have an opinion of your boss that is negative and that will not change unless YOU change it.

As for the carrot that has been promised for the work already performed, it seems that it keeps getting put out of reach. That typically does not change. Don't focus on it!



**************************************
My Biggest problem is that I almost always believe what I tell myself.

 

[DeanConsulting]

I really appreciate everyone's viewpoint. I guess it is one of those things where one has to really be there in order to see the magnitude of my dilema.


---------------------------------------
Noble D. Bell

http://www.noblesoftware.com

http://www.noblebell.com

 

[JCreamerII]

Noble,

This is a typical startup story. It's all about cash flow and ethics. The telling point is that "they must have lost the check", this is no big deal you void it, and cut another. Bringing this up as an excuse is a ruse that Noble saw thru and his instincts are on the money. The fact that he is getting jerked around about money is also telling. I've see it before.

Jim C.

 

[aarenot]

here is a bit of advice

if you do not trust your eomployer based on commitments made, and not kept after one reminder of that commitment. given they do not dispute the commitment as a misunderstanding needed to be worked out, and then they work it out. then forget about it, they have, and do not intend to make good on the commitment.

if this is a pattern as you say of not meeting their commitments, then it is not going to change, find another job, do not make waves, get a goood reference, do not burn bridges. that does not do your reference, or your employment there any good.

find the new job first

if they accept giving notice. which means they allow you to continue to work, or end your employment, but keep paying you for the notice period. then give notice.

take vacation first, time it after bonuses, and best after a review, so you get your raise for your resume, and have a check with the higher pay to document.

a good thing also is to check your employers common references, dunn and bradstreet, judgements, liens
, etc., etc. it will give you a impartial impression of the stability, and reputation of your employer. having some things in bad report is common, a pattern is what you are looking for.

also, check with trusted former associates of the company , but take these with a grain of salt, unless they all concur.

be wise, do not jump top conclusions, but do not bury your head in the sand either. if the employment relationship ends, that is not the end of the world. hopefully you made money, they made money, eveyrone made money, and that is good ess. do not make it personal.

thank them for what they did for you, forget about what they did not do. they should do the same in return.








You do not always get what you pay for, but you never get what you do not pay for.

 

[pbunyon]

Somewhere between two stories lies the truth. Address this with your boss and if you feel their morals are not in line with yours, skeedaddle. It's not worth your time to work for people who treat others with disrespect.

Paul

 

[aarenot]

i would not suggest getting yourself involved in this mess. it is not your business to get in the mniddle of it. it is between them, and you are not privy, or should not be privy to other peoples pay, etc. you have no way to verify anything anyone says unless you are privy to all the documents which are proprietary to the business. like the check book, etc. you would also have to have been there when they spoke to each other or it is all 2nd hand, therefore not very reliable.

deal with what you have first hand knowledge of, and are as a right involved in. if they deal with you by meeting their commitments, then trust them. otherwise, you may only be getting part of the story from unverifiable sources.

the only thing you should do is inform the company of the claims being made by the former employee. informing them that you have no information first hand to judge the validity of her statements, but wanted them to know, so they could make their case to their current employees if they so choose.

You do not always get what you pay for, but you never get what you do not pay for.