Microsoft vs Borland 3

[hellferret]

I am a VB programmer and I'm thinking about learning C. What are the differences between Microsoft and Borlands compilers?

Which would you suggest?
HF

 

[mrsurrender]

I know that doesn't hit the question, but just to point You at another language, also.
Delphi.
It got lots of compiler advantages of C (well, it is a true compiler), but got an IDE simple to use as VB.
And I found out that lots of great innovations, C# presented, were always there, using Delphi.

 

[hellferret]

The reason for moving to C is because of the obvious performance increase I'd get out of C, especially when throwing around large amounts of graphics.

How does Delphi stand up to C++ in the "who's got the bigger stick" stakes?
HF

 

[Karl Blessing]

if you compare Borland Delphi to Borland C++ Builder, their IDE/Interface is almost exactly the same, so they both hold up as keeping a VB interface, only one is the pascal language, and the other is C++ language.

If a good visual interfac is your key for ease, Borland C++ Builder would be your choice, if you are determined to do C++ over pascal. Karl Blessing aka kb244{fastHACK}

 

[Cagliostro]

Microsoft's compillers are much more reliable than Borland's compillers. John Fill

ivfmd@mail.md

 

[Guest_imported]

I think a combination of Visual Basic & Visual C++ would be a more standard approach in Microsoft world, and it's also easy: you use Visual C++ to write fast part of code, and Visual Basic to "draw" user interface. Again, I dont believe in Borland's solution in writing commercial applications, esp. when COM goes into the stage.
P/S: I used to be a Delphi fan before

 

[ZakiMaksyutov]

If you write programs on Windows platform then Microsoft Visual C++ is much better than Borland's compiler.

 

[Karl Blessing]

I think this topic, it lies along , Functionality and Ease.

if you really care about ease (in an all in one tool) , you can use Borland C++ Builder.

but if you care about functionality (I dont care for MFC it self, but oh well) VC++ would be the choice.

But yea like Zaki says, using a combination of VB and VC++ is the best way to go (I usally had to do VB frontends, and VC++ backends) , as far as the "Visual" portions goes, I myself have never used VC++ for visual GUI and such, not on many occasions anyways, because I Always find myself making the GUI in VB, but always writing the ActiveX dll codes in VC++, I just guess I'm more used to working with C++ as a backend tool.

But Borland C++ Builder, does make it much easier to make a Graphical app, if you already know some C++ (Reliable, that really depends)

I lean both ways, for example, if you are learning c++ for the first time, I would have recomended using Borland Turbo C++ 4.5 , as it is usally a pretty good compiler to learn on (type in the code, press run, no project files need, etc, etc) (same could be said for the old borland dos compilers) Karl Blessing aka kb244{fastHACK}

 

[dArktEmplAr]

Well, I will list a few points that I have noticed:
1. VC++ doesnot support CORBA (only COM and co), but Borland C++ Builder (BCB) has an excellect support for both CORBA and COM.
2. VC++ compiler is much slower when compared to BCB, so if you are developing an application with over a million lines of code you will get now where with VC++. Delphi is the fastest. Delphi is Speed! BTW Who said that an application written in Delphi is slower than that written in C++. Well I think that this depends on the brains one has!
3. If you want your VC++ application to run on a virgin machine(without V Studio) you will have to supply the MFCxxx.dll (VBRUNxxx.dll for VB) to get the damn application running. The freaking dll is a huge one, while the smallest application in BCB with all the features of MFC is 286kb or lesser.
4. Borland C++ compiler version 5.5 is free. You can download it from

http://www.borland.com,

while the VC++ compiler is not.
5. When you program with VC++ you get stuck to the windows platform and it is not ANSI compatible, but if you program is BCB, it s a breeze to switch to other OS. BTW you can try out Kylix from Borland which is now Delphi under linux, but will later include BCB too.
You might think that I am a MS basher, but I am not so I will list some of the negative aspects of BCB:
1. It lacks all the good stuff of the ATLs
2. Most of the 3rd party lib files usually are VC++ compliant, but this is not a problem coz you can use the implib utility from borland to generate BCB lib files. If you use Delphi or BCB, you can get all the goodies of the net e.g: Rxlib, JEDI etc..
3. The compiler does not optimize the code that efficiently as the MS compiler does, but I don't think that you would notice the difference as the time difference is in 10E-7 seconds. This is because of Borland has to support lots of vendors while MS is the "boss"!
HtH.
Long live Free Software!

 

[Karl Blessing]

you may want to make a note, that MFC is not required to develope applications in VC++, therefore distributions of the mfc*.dll are not entirely nessasary.

(I for one, refrain from using MFC itself much as possible)

good note you made about 5.5 , I would hav never guess that, I guess I Can start recomending that for beginners and learners? Karl Blessing aka kb244{fastHACK}

 

[Karl Blessing]

eh then again maybe not, thats only command line driven. Karl Blessing aka kb244{fastHACK}

 

[jvff]

Hello,
since I started to program I always used Borland. When I started using Microsoft Visual C++, I discovered that it was 10 times better than Borland C++ Builder except the fact of Borland's IDE that really was the best. Microsoft's is almost the same but with no grid, no dialogs to automatically put and the double-click feature. When you double-click it adds the component with a default size. Thank you,

JVFF

 

[dArktEmplAr]

I do know that you can develop applications without the MFCs, but then there is no concept of "Visual". It is similar to using the Free Command line compiler from Borland with "Visual" Notepad (All MS tools are "Visual" and notepad is the best that has been released which is not buggy).
I would recommed the free compiler from Borland to all beginners as this alone helps you to understand the stuff. Infact I have VC++, BCB and the free compiler in my machine and I still use "Visual" notepad and the free compiler as this does not hog my system resources. The only time I switch over to the IDE is to design forms and for debugging.
BTW you can use MFC in BCB, but you cannot use VCLs in VC++, so what would you choose, something that supports many things or get stuck to one vendor! You have lots of components for BCB on the net.
One more thing in favour of BCB is the ease of Database connectivity.
Well I use C++ only for OpenGL programming. For the database part and also OpenGL I use Delphi. I usually translate the header files to pascal to use them in Delphi or if available go to the

http://www.delphi-JEDI.org

and download the pas files
Long live Godess Athena
regards
dArktEmplAr of Delphi

 

[mrsurrender]

Hey dArktEmpIar,

before You get stuck with notepad, try

http://www.textpad.com

It's a superb editor. High speed, syntax highlighting, great search functions, low royalty.

And it's been written with Delphi ;-)

What I found out is, that in many cases the combination VB VC++ is not needed, if you use Delphi. It has great components, lots of advantages C++ got and the "easiness" of VB. And COM/DCOM/CORBA really is no problem, too. C++ (MS or Borland) is still at a quiet high level for starters (you have to do lots by hand made), while VB makes everything easy, but slow and very limited; not only because it doesn't support real OOP.

Think about the advantages C# gives, like types and so on. Beside the whole .Net-thing, C# seems to me like C++ becoming closer to Delphi. At least I would say that lots of good ideas implemented in Delphi have now finally hit C++. Well, they say that the mind behind Turbo Pascal and Delphi no works for C#...

Never stop thinking!
Siegfried.

 

[dArktEmplAr]

Sorry, mrsurrender, but I think that notepad is the best thing that microsoft has developed. I think that it has virtually no bugs. (Oh! I forgot, I love their games too)
I love delphi and the fact that textpad is written in it, but I LOVE "visual" notepad.
I have used textpad and its cousin editpad, they are great editors, but to remember all the keystrokes are difficult.
I have a problem using the mouse (I am allergic to them)
I would like to get my hands on Anders Heijlsberg for copying or stealing the features of Delphi when he moved to MS, but I like his philosophy, so I forgive him.
I really don't like the idea of .NET coz I think that MS is after my pocket and wants a monopoly.

Welcome to the Pythian Games!
Long live Godess Athena!
dArktEmplAr of Delphi Oracle

 

[Karl Blessing]

just a quick note on the game part, microsoft doesnt make games, they either hire someone else to develop them, or they buy out old games, hire someone to change the decals and make it work under windows (they took an old game Terminal velocity once, a nice dos game, several several years later released a new game, forgot what it was called, but it uses DX the game was 'EXACTLY' the same, only the skins were changed to a different color, and ran under directX) Karl Blessing aka kb244{fastHACK}

 

[venki]

Hi
If you r comfortable with VB , then VC++ is the same way to use IDE.
Top start with you can use Borland C++ Compiler for the begining, do some hard coding with OOPS concept, then you easily jump into Microsoft VC++.

You use the skills of windows programing + OOps concept
VC++, which will be really easy.
Best of Luck.
Regards
[bold] Venki[\bold]

 

[kridy]

Hi,
the online help function in Borland's IDE is much better than Microsoft 's.
The rest seems to be a little bit like religious controversy ;-)

Kind regards,
Kridy
_____________
kridy@web.de

 

[Karl Blessing]

Its just my opinion, but I find the MSDN Library (if you have it installed locally) to be much more complete in information. But yes most of the differences are trivial, based on the likes and dislikes of a person. Although I cant speak too much for the background compiling of it (how well it actually compiles a peice of code) , but I am much more comfortable with using VC++ and VB[as frontend]. Karl Blessing aka kb244{fastHACK}