Man creates 'god' 3

[guestgulkan]

It promises we can be whatever we want to be (genetic engineering),
It promises immortality (or as nears as) (genetic engineering and cloning),
It promises total control.

Are we witnessing the birth of a future divine entity??

 

[xutopia]

some might say here that God created us in his image! lol so I guess we are Gods of our own if we are to go by that! Gary

http://www.xutopia.com

Haran

 

[CajunCenturion]

Genetic Engineering and Cloning may be a start, but to begin even thinking about divinity you need to address the following qualities of the truly Divine.

Omniscience
Omnipotence
Onmipresence
Omnificence Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[Craftor]

I'm sure many people would like to argue that they have these qualities or that IT can give them these qualities (think Bill Gates ;-))

e.g. Omniscience = the ability to see everything at once (if memory serves me correctly) - sattelites, PC's to analyse the output, reports created for the viewer ...

Omnipresence = the ability to be everywhere at once - sattelite screens beaming your image everywhere, spy cameras to watch everyone + hidden microphones to comment..

I'm probably going a bit over the top here but do you see my point?

 

[monikai]

Total control? No, it's more than Big Brother !! Kind regards from Warsaw !!!!!
Monika (monikai@yahoo.com)

 

[CajunCenturion]

I think your definitions are a bit watered down.

Omniscience is not just the ability to see everything at once, which satelittes cannot do, but to have infinite knowledge - to know all that is knowable.

Omnipresence is not the ability to be everywhere, but also to be everywhen. Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[Craftor]

Yes I know I was just trying to give a very brief recount of what we can do now. Compare it to 1000 years ago. To know what was happening on another continent within minutes? Impossible and probably unthinkable. Now? Expected. In another 1000 years? Who knows?

 

[CajunCenturion]

As Einstein said, things should be as simple as possible, but no simpler.

IMHO, in your very brief recount, you got too simple, thus simplifying out those limiting qualities of man and technology. Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[Craftor]

Twas, as stated above, just a brief recount intended to get people thinking...

Apologies for any misunderstanding that may have occured from being over-brief.

 

[guestgulkan]

Omnificence - 'unlimited in creative power'.

True - the four 'omni' represent perfection - which probably cannot be achived through science and technology - but we will achieve a useful practical version.

 

[CajunCenturion]

I certainly hope not.

Man needs challenges. Man has the need to reach over the horizon in order to grow and evolve. If man ever gets to the point where we have no challenges, where there is nothing beyond his grasp, then man will stagnate and die.

Your choice of the word perfection to represent the four omni's is an interesting choice. Why perfection?

The concept of a useful practical version as a substitute for perfection is also interesting - my initial thought is that it borders being oxymoronic, but I'm interested in hearing other thoughts and reactions to this substitution. Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[michaylukr]

A Useful Practical Version is simply the pragmatic view perfection. I would think it similar to excellence instead of perfection.

 

[RISTMO]

Another important point that was missed is that the Creator made everything from nothing. The best science can offer is to someday make something from something. Remember Biosphere 2?

"Indeed, a team of scientists tried to design and build a self-contained system for supporting life. It was called "Biosphere 2" and was supposed to be a microcosm of life on earth. It contained a variety of animals and plants and was designed to be completely self-supporting. The scientists thought they had it all worked out. They spent 7 years and 200 million dollars designing and building this air-tight, elcosed facility which spanned 3.15 acres in Arazona. Despite the best that technology and science had to offer, Biosphere 2 could not support life for even two years! After about 1 year and 4 months, oxygen levels could not be maintained. They had to start pumping life in from the outside. Many of the animal species that had been put in Biosphere 2 became extinct. In the end, Biosphere 2 was a failure. Of course, none of this should be surprising to anyone. The planet earth is an intricate web of millions of processes that work together to support life...An omniscient, omnipotent God designed the earth. He could foresee all of life's needs, even the tiny bacteria needed to support it. Limited human beings, on the other hand, just do not have the ability to design and create what God has designed and created, even on a very small scale."
Dr. Jay L. Wile & Marilyn F. Durnell 1998

Rick

 

[Craftor]

RISTMO is quite right. We can clone an embryo - something that already has the spark of life - but we cannot create that spark ourselves.

 

[cian]

Yer all mad I tell ye, mad!

The birth of a "future divine entity" or the beginning of the end for mankind? Without having thought about it too deeply I believe you shouldn't play with your own existence! It's looking for trouble!

One thing I am really curious about is the next stage of human evolution! Without cloning or genetic engineering, which probably will play a role in our 'development' and assuming life on this planet exists long enough for us to change, what strange and interesting powers will humans inherit in the future. Greater usage of the brain? ...leading to...telepathic abilities/ESP? X? Y?
Z?


::

http://www.endamcg.com

::

http://www.endamcg.com/finland-gaa

 

[sleipnir214]

Another thing to worry about when we have these genetically engineered übermänner running around....

What will the reaction of ephemeral humans be when they no longer have a competitive advantage over them?

Suggested reading: Beggars in Spain, by Nancy Kress. The only substantive change to a group of genetically engineered humans is that they do not require sleep. ______________________________________________________________________
TANSTAAFL!

 

[vaoldschl]

Remember that our definition of divinity ultimately comes from within ourselves. If it is my opinion that genetic manipulation amounts to the divine it is truth for me. If I can convince enough of my peers of this than that becomes truth for many. One of Webster's definitions of divinity is to be superhuman so first thing on the agenda is to rewrite the dictionary which is not too difficult a task.

Another def. is to be 'supremely good or beautiful' so that leaves me out of the running hands down, walking away.

I also wonder: if I don't play with my existence what toys of interest do I have left?

 

[Tarwn]

At what point does genetic manipulation cross this line I have see in so many posts today? Genetic manipulation is in no way a new science, only more exact, and more informed (as computers are put to work). Genetic manipulation occurs on it's own, animals manipulate the gene pool by selectively mating. One argument is that it becomes manipulation when we, as humans, conciously do it. Could be, Mendel, agricutrists, etc. Nothing New.
Perhaps it is when manipulations are made to one single organism, rather than selectively breeding certain plants or animals. If this is the case, how would a single manipulated being take over?

And nowhere is there the act of creation. Manipulating genetics, cloning, all of it, it's poking at the universe. (ooh *poke* whats this bit do)
I think the only things we can truly create are thoughts, theories, and small wet diapers (there is no way he drank tha much, he just went 5 seconds ago).

Anyways, just my point of view

-Tarwn --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
For my next trick I will pull a hat out of a rabbit (if you think thats bad you should see how the pigeon feels...)

 

[CajunCenturion]

maxq - By your definition, that those things which are superhuman would be divine, and therefore truth. But I ask you, if we get that point where we have "mastered" genetic engineering, then I would submit that it is no longer superhuman, to the contrary, it at that point becomes ordinary, and therefore no longer divine and so no longer truth? or Truth (capital T)? -- does that now make it false?

Obviously there are not right and wrong answers here, but I would submit that the divine is not that which is super-human, but that which is extra-human.

Truth, on the other hand, is a complete separate issue altogether. Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[vaoldschl]

Totally talking the same language Cajun: since I am human I can not by definition be or do the superhuman and therefore, again by definition, can not be divine. So if we can master genetic engineering it is not a superhuman feat.

I'm also not saying that those things which are superhuman or divine are Truth. I'm saying we make our own truth (no capital T) and therefore could feasibly redefine divinity to include ourselves. Language is tricky and can be used to our advantage and disadvantage but understand that we make the rules in language and through language create our common understanding of the world.

I'm going to get myself into real trouble here and espouse a far from original concept regarding your use of 'extra-human' which I take to mean external to humanity. None of us can conceptualize anything which is extra-human as the very act of that conceptualization makes the idea human. Put another way: I can understand no world external to myself as my understanding of the world comes only from within myself. This would be why people fight so much; we can't agree on our definitions.