Mac vs PC Opinions Needed

[DanEaker]

The Communications Department at my company has always used Macs for all the print jobs, since that was the industry standard. These are the only Macs in the company, since the rest of the company uses PCs (a standard dictated by the IT Department). The designers in Communications are not the most technically savvy people, and when technical issues come up with the machines an outside vendor has to come in to fix the issues.

I am the web graphic designer at my company, and I do all my work on a PC, though I used to be in the Communications Department and used the Macs when I was there (I switched departments in 2000). I have been asked to assess the feasibility of switching the Communications department to PCs so the upkeep and maintenance can stay in-house.

I know that for a long time Mac was the standard in the print field (handbooks, newsletters, brochures, etc.) Is this still true? Are there any issues that anyone has come across using PCs to create printed material? What are the readers of this forum using? Any comments and insight will be helpful and much appreciated. Thank you!

 

[Baddoggy]

Hi Dan.
Being a loyal Mac user for over 14 years...I would always be on the side of Mac...however, having spent over 8 years in a supporting role, I appreciate the task that faces you.

To be honest, there is no reason why if you have the chance to start a fresh, you will have any great problems using PC for this task, especially with the Adobe CS suite of products.

I hate myself for giving this advice, but if you haven't already invested in the hardware it is indeed cheaper to purchase and support the PC's. Just make sure you spec the highest processors/ RAM and HD configs you can afford as the apps are memory hungry.

The only set back is finding staff to man the equipment.

Good luck in your task.

BD

 

[brieric]

Hi Dan - I too am a loyal mac user but also dispassionately use a pc for doing the same design, direct-to-print work.
As BD mentioned, you'll want to max out your RAM and video options as much as possible. I still notice my PC with similar specs to my mac really lags on video cababilities.
Software is not an issue as most of the standard apps are available cross-platform.
Aside from that, the other issue would be in vendor support. While larger print shops support both platforms some smaller shops are still mac-only. Shop around.

That said, I feel I should also mention (as confirmed by a certified apple/wintel repairman) that PCs require vastly more maintenance than most macs. On a personal note, I too experience a greater amount of down-time on my wintel system than on my mac.

Something to consider.
BB

 

[jimoblak]

While I enjoy using my Mac and it's pleasant interface, I know that there are a few financial advantages to using my Windows computer (I could never decide which platform is best so I'm stuck with both).

Money...
It is true that Windows hardware is cheaper than Mac at the point of sale but you must consider the total cost of ownership when it comes to support/maintenance. Macs are typically easier to maintain because you don't have as many conflict issues: Apple designs both the hardware and software. I use Mac and Windows equally and have found the Mac much easier to troubleshoot. This may not be the case for your resident IT staff that is not Mac-trained: it will certainly be more expensive for Mac support if you must call in a third party.

The other financial issue is the cost of software. Your existing Mac licenses will need to be cross-graded to Windows if you switch. This can be expensive.


Capabilities...
There are two issues to consider with the differences in capabilities.

The Mac processor is not as capable with 3D rendering. Intel processors have been benchmarked faster than Mac. If you do a lot of 3D design, you should use Windows.

While OpenType is great, the Windows OS cannot accept older font files from Mac. If you share documents with outside designers that use Macs, you should use Mac. Mac OSX accepts both Windows and Mac font files.


Other than these issues, it is no big deal what platform you use.

As a web graphic designer, you may be interested in Mac OSX as an excellent development platform. I prefer OSX for developing LAMP web applications. I'm no fan of Microsoft web services.

- - picklefish - -
Why is everyone in this forum responding to me as picklefish?

 

[RyanPace]

You've opened a can of worms on this one...
I think you could debate the technical side of this forever. Here are a few non-technical thoughts...

Have you taken into consideration the department staff? Are they PC trained. Have they always worked on a Mac? If the department is full of Mac experienced designers you could break more than you fix. Any cut in maintenance costs could be negated by a loss of productivity. (spending all of the time trying to figure out how to do something on the PC instead of just doing it)

Do you work with archived files? If you have a library of files that are being used frequently, switching would make these files unavailable.

We are a commercial printer and use both platforms. Many shops do not. But with the advancement of PDF technology, PC/Mac is becoming less of an issue. I would look at the big picture.

 

[bischerboy]

Blimey!

as with you, our tiny mac network is standalone, and I have to deal with our own networking and software issues. Also, being in a large company any pc systems issues must be dealt with along with the rest of the company's problems - this could lead to serious problems waiting for our engineers to turn up (and they're not the greatest).

Being standalone we have a maintenance contract set up with our Apple reseller and try to keep up telephone support from the larger software developers (Quark/Adobe etc), and to be honest, this seems to be working quite well. This sort of independence allows us to sort any problems out far quicker than any in-house pc option available to me would allow.

 

[EicherDesignDotCom]

I went to Pratt for Design and was trained in the world of Macs. I worked for several years at different companies after school - all on Macs. I then got a job at a company that was entirely PC based (a fact that I did not know until my first day of work!). I stayed at that company for two years and never once did I miss being in a Mac environment. I am now back in the world of Macs and very content. As long as you have an IT guy that wants to please the artsy folks with FAST, Powerful PCS, with the latest software then go for it. There's no reason not to. The developers have caught the applications up for the PC. Quark is Quark. Photoshop is Photoshop. The designers will be PC wizards in a matter of a week or so. Good luck!

 

[wmin]

Dan, to put it simply, the whole publishing and printing world rotates around Macs, no matter how sad it sounds, you will have great difficulties in converting from and to various versions of PC and Mac files, fonts and god knows what else. If you are working with the outside world, get a Mac (speaking bitterly from personal experience).

 

[3HANDS]

Speaking from experience the majority of the BIG jobs are still Mac produced, It is about the same ratio as Quark to InDesign.

 

[fidsak]

I would like to add one more thing: PC support techs are not necessarily going to be able to deal with graphic problems on the PC side. When was the last time they had to sort out font problems on the PC? Or color issues? Specialized printing problems? DTP application problems? Graphics users have different problems than business users. There will be a learning curve while they get up to speed.

 

[artman62]

Dan,

Speaking from 20 years of experience on Macs and PCs and since I print professionally from both I would get whatever makes your job easier within your company. If the rest of the company is PCs and it would make dealing with their files easier on you by using PC's then do that. If the benefit is negligible and you and your staff are more comfortable on Mac's stay with that. Most programs on the market are cross-platform compatible. For fonts there are programs out there that convert Mac fonts to PC and vice versa. There are programs to read Mac disks on a PC and PC disks on a Mac.

I disagree with wmin. The whole print and publishing world does not rotate around Macs. Any printer or service bureau worth their salt should be able to take files from either platform. I use both on a daily basis.

 

[MarcusStringer]

I agree with artman62. It doesn't matter any more, which system you run with.

My only advise would be to keep one or two Mac machines on site, only for the fact that all of your achives will be compatable with Mac.

Marcus

http://www.midlandtypesetters.com.au

 

[emkemner]

I use both mac and pc for ad layout and all i can say is while my PC is *thinking* or locking up from exporting/saving/uploading pictures, or what ever other task im trying to get it to do. My mac is running smooth and being productive. I have a g5 mac with osx panther, and an ibm with a p4 2.6 with 2 gigs of ram and radeon 9800 pro 256 mb video card. I Prefer mac 10 to 1. Just my experience.

 

[wmin]

artman62, I may have significantly shorter experience, however, I know for a fact that any printer or service bureau worth their salt does not do anything for free. When-ever/where-ever printer can charge you they will and it is in their interest for you to submit something that may create extra half an hour of work for them – for which they will charge you through your nose – and believe me they will come up with any excuse. If you can submit something that needs not attention then why bother with anything else. Besides think of all fonts that you would have cross reference – they cost money!

Learning curve is not a great price to pay for the benefit of total control over your design and costs - learn once use many times.

 

[tad1952]

It seems to me that while you might be fixing one problem, you might actually be creating a bigger one.

What are you losing and what are you gaining? What is the dollar figure that you actually spend on an outside IT person? Is it less than the cost of purchasing new computers and software? Will your IT person actually be able to solve your problems with the programs your designers will be using?

The move from mac to pc programs should not be a big deal for your designers since all the professional programs are cross-platform anyway, but the frustration they may experience with the computer itself may far outweigh the benefit of having an internal IT person.

Our macs require minimal maintenance and usually function even when there are problems, but our pcs have totally crashed without warning. Best case scenerio - uninstall and reinstall the software. Worst case scenerio - a total system rebuild and subsequently reinstallation of all software. If you use Quark, this can be a nightmare in itself - it took more than a day for me to actually get through to a real live person & then another hour to get a new activation number and get Quark functioning.

The downtime for our pcs far surpasses that of our macs - and we have 3 macs for every pc. Fortunately our IT person in extremely knowledgeable in both pc & mac. It seems to me that it would be more economical to train one IT person to use a Mac than switching an entire department over to accomodate your IT personnel.

 

[duncdude]

Hi Dan

Think about it dude. PC's are made by whoever. They have a video card made by someone else. They have a sound card made by another company. They have a sound card made by yet another manufacturer. Then they have a lovely copy of Windows (yuk!) written by Microsoft. Microsoft don't make computers. THANK GOD! Drivers for this, drivers for that, drivers for all the bits and bobs bolted onto the dull grey box to make it a working computer. Granted it's a good way to get up to speed with how they work. But you don't need this hassle when you are trying to get work done - do you?

Use Mac's dude!

... then you get a lovely worm on your PC!!!


Kind Regards
Duncan

 

[graphicsolutions]

Windows

A 32 bit extension and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition.

 

[jimoblak]

Please do not buy into the odd notion that Mac is totally free of viruses and buggy system software. While I prefer Mac over Windows for other reasons, if a system is correctly patched, secured through a firewall and has current antivirus software installed, it does not matter what operating system that you use.

...and Apple is not immune to system software conflicts with third party hardware. At some point in the 10.2 series, Apple release a system update that had issues with external USB devices. The error caused the system to crash. This was corrected a couple weeks later but it was a critical issue for many users.

- - picklefish - -
Why is everyone in this forum responding to me as picklefish?

 

[dabob]

wmin (Programmer) wrote that . . . "I know for a fact that any printer or service bureau worth their salt does not do anything for free. When-ever/where-ever printer can charge you they will and it is in their interest for you to submit something that may create extra half an hour of work for them – for which they will charge you through your nose – and believe me they will come up with any excuse."

I need to answer that . . . it seems he has had some problems with his files in the past and didn't like someone charging him for making the files output correctly . . . well excuuuuuse me I bet if his paycheck came in with 30 hours pay for 40 hours work he would have a problem . . . I own a printshop and service bureau and yes we do expect to get paid for the work that we do but then who doesn't and if he thinks that we make you pay "through the nose" its because better technicians demand better pay . . .

or you could just tell the folks at the printer "its perfect run the file as is and don't fix anything" then the film or printing would be unacceptable and I could just imagine what he would say then. but I'll bet it wouldn't be his fault - (I hear that all the time)

To answer the original ? . . . Macs still rule in the pubishing world and with the introduction of OSX they are actually easier to integrate into a PC LAN than some PCs I'm running a mixed network with 6 Macs 9 PCS and 8 printers ranging from inkjets to high end imagesetters and the MACs are the most problem free of the whole system!!!

 

[blueark]

Cross platform issues are less of a problem now than they used to be. One important question you should ask is whether or not you will be sending your Quark files to a third party. If not, then it's just a matter of personal preference.

If you are, which is more likely, I would recommend sticking with Macs, for the moment at least. Although most print shops support both platforms, the most experienced pre-press staff will probably have cut their teeth on Macs. If there is a problem with your files, they are the people you want on your side, not some sales guy who's "good with computers"!

But the world is constantly changing. If you know how to create press-ready PDFs (and I mean REALLY know how to create them), then you have far more options available, both hardware and software.