Load errors - remote desktop users

[chevy96man]

I'm getting load errors in Macola. We are running version 7.5.103b. I have 4 locations total. The server is in the corporate office. The users in the corporate office have the macola client installed on their PC. The users in the remote offices use remote desktop connection to connect to a terminal server via VPN in the corporate office. The terminal server has a macola client installed on it. At least 5 times a week, one of the users will notify me they have a load error. The resolution I've come up with is to check and see who is using Macola on the terminal server and have them disconnect from Macola. Once everyone that is logged in to Macola via the terminal server logs off, then they can go back in and there is no load errors. One thing to note. I do not need the people in the local (corporate) office to disconnect from Macola which is installed on their own PC. Does anyone out there have a resolution to this? Thanks in advance.

 

[abaldwin]

Is this load error the 178, 179 or some other error?


Andy Baldwin

"Testing is the most overlooked programming language on the books!

 

[chevy96man]

All the above. It will be different load errors all the time.

 

[abaldwin]

Welcome to the world of Macola over terminal services.

Just a few things to look for.

1. There are 3 different methods of "Fixing" this according to Macola's infomine. None of which work and all of which are direct opposites of what the other 2 papers say to do and not to do.

2. I used to think this was a dns issue but have ruled that out.

3. I have been able to "MAKE" this occur at will in macola but Macola either does not believe me or thinks I'm nuts, (Both of which are probably somewhat true).

I can ususally make this happen within a minute or so by having the end user (TS user) use the "X" to close out of a Macola application such as enter PO, OE, IM view or IM management. This has been able to start the problem almost instantaniously on the TS side only.

The short story is that I think there is a memory leak in Macola when the window is closed with the X instead of using a menu option to exit. I do not think the data connections are closed properly and since the TS is a shared environment the trash collection does not occur in RAM quick enough to accomodate users.

No matter how many or few users we have on our two TS servers this has been a problem since day one. If you solve this at all I will be more than happy to buy you lunch as long as it does not involve moving the location of the Macola server to the TS server etc.........

You have asked the Holy grail of Macola questions. Sorry to sound negative but I do not see an answer for ya.

Laterdays

Andy Baldwin

"Testing is the most overlooked programming language on the books!

 

[chevy96man]

Wow, thanks a lot Andy. I appreciate the answer. That explains a lot actually. And I have tried to do some troubleshooting in the past, but with limited time at the remote facility, it's hard to do. I will do some more experimenting with it and see if I can duplicate.
That was going to be my next question is if it would benefit at all to move the Macola server to the terminal server and if it can even be done? Let me know on that one.
Thanks.
Mike

 

[keain]

Quote Abaldwin
"The short story is that I think there is a memory leak in Macola when the window is closed with the X instead of using a menu option to exit. I do not think the data connections are closed properly and since the TS is a shared environment the trash collection does not occur in RAM quick enough to accomodate users."

More than likely, there is a memory leak. Closing with the X is a sure fire way to create ghost users. If the application is unable to cleanup after itself properly, odds are, it did not properly close all db connections. The same problem happens in numerous other programs, as well, though.

You don't mention what OS your terminal server is, though. If it is Windows 2000, there is also a TCP/IP throttling issue to be dealt with. When the 178s and 179s first appeared back in '02, Macola worked fairly closely with Microsoft and it was determined by MS that the amount of packets Macola was pushing across the connection was too much for the 2K Terminal Services. What was MS's answer? Redo the app. Well, I'm sure you remember 7.6.200. Redoing the app can be a dangerous proposition. Of course, I don't seem to recall the problem occuring on W2k3 Terminal Services, though.

As for moving a copy of the app to the Terminal Services box, it will only work if you're running MSSQL and monkey with some of the config files. I've seen it done numerous times and done it quite a few times myself. I can't remember a time where it did not resolve the problem (that doesn't mean the problem didn't reoccur, it's just that I can't remmeber a time when it didn't).

 

[NEmacGuy]

Have you had Exact or your reseller look at this issue. We have approx 15-20 clients running Macola on terminal server with any where from 5 users to 50 users. Some running WMS, others with Macola and Flexibity, or ES. Flavors :7.5.103F, 7.6.100A, 7.6.300C., ES340, ES360.
We haven't had any clients complaining about what you mention. The last few issues have all been Norton Corporate edition interaction with WMS or Macola, and alot of crystal reports (all most all rights issues)

Our biggest issues on terminal server have been
1.) Printing - not always 123 but many workarounds
2.) We like to manage our clients entire IT requirements. We also have some clients that manage their our networks, or use a third party. This often complicates things.
3.) 2003 has been a little sticky on security, extremly stable, and many of the printing issues go away, but not all.

 

[dgillz]

Kean,

Please explain how "closing with an X is a surefire way to create ghost users". We are talking about the upper right hand corner X, which is a windows standard for closing a window.

There are 4 ways to close a macola window (not the main program window but a called window) which should never cause a problem:

* Hit escape enough times and any window will close
* click on file-exit
* click on the red X in the top left of many (but not all) Macola screens
* click the X in the upper right hand corner of the window(Andy's issue)

Only the last one causes a problem, and only in a terminal services/Citrix environment.

If there is a problem using the last method -- which again is a windows standard way of closing ANY window -- then Microsoft is right, the app needs to be fixed.

I do agree that in newer versions of Progression this has been improved greatly (but not eliminated), as is probably the case with 2k3 TS.

Software Sales, Training, Implementation and Support for Macola, eSynergy, and Crystal Reports

http://www.gainfocus.biz

 

[kstickler]

I think he is talking about closing out the Terminal Session Window. There is an X option at the top. We threaten users with death if they even think about closing out this way. This does leave users hanging, and sometimes I have to clear them out. As far as running Macola over Terminal Servers; We use Win 2000 and absolutely had to move the application over to the terminal servers to prevent the errors you are talking about. This was way back on 7.5.103f. Macola (Exact) says that Windows 2003 resolves this, but I do not have direct experience with that. Our biggest issue is remembering to apply updates to both terminal servers! We are on 7.6.300c now, but I am wary about test running it directly from the server....if it ain't broke....ya know the rest!

 

[chevy96man]

Wow, I got a better response that I thought I would get. Thanks everyone.
I know for a fact that using the X for the terminal session itself is not my problem here. I've instructed my users and threatened them if they use it. And I'll give them a quiz everyone once in a while and ask them to go thru the steps for me. And no one uses the X at the top for the terminal session. I do however have the people use the X for the macola window itself. I have them set up on the terminal server that when they click on their Macola icon on their desktop, it's actually a terminal service icon, that it automatically logs them into the server and it opens up macola. Closing out of the macola app will log them out of the terminal server. But I don't think this is the problem either. So by the ideas stated above, my guess is that it's the memory leak issue. Am I going to upgrade to Server 2003 any time soon? No. Will I move Macola off of it's own server and on to the terminal server? Probably. I've been wanting to do this for a while. My Exact software support company reps don't advise of it, but it can be done, also as stated above. I don't think it will be much of a project, but time will tell. Nothing ever seems to go smooth in IT. Anyways, thanks everyone for the great responses. I got a lot better response here this time than when I asked this question about 1.5 - 2 years ago. As Andy Baldwin stated above, I will glady buy someone a lunch and even a dinner for that matter if you resolve this issue for me. For now, I'll just deal with the issue and if I have time, I'll do some more troubleshooting when it occurs.
Thanks.
Mike

 

[abaldwin]

Kimmay, No not closing the RDC connection, I am talking about closing say ......PO Order entry using the X in the corner of the application. It does not perform the same functions as closing with the menu item or the ESC key.

More importantly I see this problem as "RANDOM". Not randomly getting the error on a site but random to a site. In other words the sites not experienceing these errors NEVER get them. The sites getting these errors ALWAYS get them. The installation and config of TS itself and the Macola client, rights etc don't seem to matter.

This error can not be explained by Macola. If MS says they need to fix their app then they need to fix their app. Writing something not compatible with the core OS is an unhealthy way to write software.

The really funny thing about this issue is that I have never seen anything from Macola that mentioned a conversation with MS. There are actually conflicting infomine entries on how to address this.

Andy Baldwin

"Testing is the most overlooked programming language on the books!

 

[debbieo]

We have not had a load error since we switched to Windows Server 2003.

 

[abaldwin]

That is sweet to know.

Thanks for the follow-up.



Andy Baldwin

"Testing is the most overlooked programming language on the books!