Linux certificaiton 1

[geokor]

NOTE: I also posted this message on the Linux (sever) forum.

I have about 3 years IT experience (mostly web site development including perl, scripting, etc.) and would like to get into linux server/client admin.

I have setup a linux/apache at home and am studying like crazy.

My question is: what is your opinion about linux certification, especially Linux+ and/or SAIR? Is it worth it? Will being certified help me get an entry level linux position? Does it actually impress those of you who are hiring linux people?

I run SuSE by the way.

Thanks a 1,000,000.

George K

 

[sleipnir214]

Certification alone will not get you a job. Well, maybe if will, if you are the only certified applicant and the job description demands it. Certification and experience will get you a job over someone with only equivalent experience. If I have to choose between certification and experience, I'll pick the grey hair every time.

Speaking as someone who has been on hiring committees, IT folk already on the job are largely unimpressed by certification credentials. Human resources people are impressed, but they've never had to deal with an MCSE that did not know about the existence of the "ping" command.

Certifications, by their nature, get watered down. Employers start asking for them, so companies start putting on "boot camps" to get them. Dentists and CPAs who can't find the "on" switch attend the boot camps get certified, then employers start wondering why the only one who can keep the network running is that guy with 6 years' experience in the field and who thinks certifications are a waste of time.

There is at least one exception. The CCIE is one of the toughest certs in the world -- maybe 500 worldwide have it.

Certifications need to be like the PE (professional engineer) cert. Just taking a test is not enough. You should have so much time in position, working under someone who is certified, before you can even apply to take the exam.

 

[geokor]

Thanks sleipnir214 , so the next question then is, how do you break into a new area such as Linux administration?

George K

 

[sleipnir214]

Trading slave labor for experience worked for me.

 

[geokor]

Didn't realize any companies are still willing to do that - I was once told by an HR person that insurance and liability problems made it impossible for any company to let me "show them" what I can do. Or are you talking about volunter type work to get experience?

George K

 

[sleipnir214]

Maybe "ad-hoc apprenticeship" is a better term.

You're right. No company large enough to have an HR department is going to let some outsider come in and touch their network.

You've got to prove yourself. You're working in the business now. Find your company's Linux admin and offer to help. Make sure that he understands why you're helping. Tell him you're willing to help after hours -- maybe even off the clock. Start taking the unsexy jobs off his hands and work your way up from there.

And Apache is a good start, but you have a lot more to learn. You have to become a JOAT.

Learn everything you can cram into your brain, and understand the theory behind what you are learning. Networking and firewalling. Samba. NFS. NIS. RADIUS. Kerberos. Know installation and programming of MySQL or PostgreSQL, and be familiar with Oracle. Understand how to install and configure Apache. Understand configuration of at least one of wu-ftpd, proftpd, ncftpd and be prepared to support your decision of which you chose to learn. Know installation and at least minimal programming of PHP, perl, python, c-language, and three or four more languages of your choosing. Be able to compile software from source. Understand what daemons are safe to run on Linux and which aren't, and why, and how to provide similar, safer services. Installation and configuration of BIND. Installation and configuration of at least one MTA, preferably more. Installation and configuration of at least one of StarOffice, OpenOffice, the KDE office suite, and Gnome's office suite. Installation and configuration of at least one window manager.

Know the protocols behind what makes the internet work. Be able to send and recieve email and hit a website using nothing but telnet -- it's the only way you will know what errors are really cropping up.

And then if that weren't enough, learn Microsoft, too. Exchange Server, SQL Server, IIS, win32 OSes. It's still rare that companies are purely Linux.


Administration isn't like programming. You can get hired right out of college to program. The damage you can do can be contained as you earn your grey hair, and your damage can usually be undone. But if you do something dumb with a company's network, they're losing money. Immediately. So companies tend to be cautious.

Does any of this help?
Perfection in engineering does not happen when there is nothing more to add. Rather it happens when there is nothing more to take away.

 

[geokor]

Yes, it help tremendously! However, it is a bit overwhelming! I am not working for any company right now - I was laid off a few months ago. That is one reason I have the time to explore and learn and want to focus my efforts where they will pay off the fastest. Thanks again.

George K

 

[fluid11]

sleipnir214 - "There is at least one exception. The CCIE is one of the toughest certs in the world -- maybe 500 worldwide have it."

There are over 7500 CCIE's -->

http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/625/ccie/ccie_program/ccie_present.html

What about the Linux equivalent to the CCIE? Red Hat's RHCE is a hands-on exam that is probably equally as hard as the CCIE. George, if you had an RHCE, you would have a job. You can't fake your way through an RHCE, so that alone, in my opinion, would prove that you know what your doing.

I only have 2 Linux certifications at the time(Linux+ and LPIC-1). Neither one is that hard, but its a good start towards the RHCE. I would recommend taking these along the way to Red Hat's cert.

ChrisP
MCSE (2K/NT4), CNE (NW5), CCNA, Linux+, A+, Network+, i-Net+, Server+, LPIC-1, CIWA

 

[sleipnir214]

Compared to the number of people in the field, even 7500 is a small number.

And ChrisP, I have also heard the same comments made ("you can't fake your way...&quot about MCSE and the CNE.

I look at it this way: If I owned a trucking company, it would not matter that you had a CDL and every endorsement. I would still want to see your driving experience, which I would verify, and I would want to see how you behave behind the wheel.
______________________________________________________________________
Perfection in engineering does not happen when there is nothing more to add.
Rather it happens when there is nothing more to take away.

 

[fluid11]

I agree with all of that. I don't think I've ever met an MCSE who actually deserved to be one. Generally, CNE's really are good admins from what I've seen. The paper cert people usually go for the MCSE, and sometimes the CCNA because thats what you hear all day long on the radio with those 2 week boot camp scams. The RHCE is performance based, unlike the MCSE and CNE, so how could you fake that?

I wonder how many RHCE's there are? I've never met one. Its probably almost as low as the CCIE numbers.

ChrisP

 

[fluid11]

Are there any RHCE's reading this post that would like to comment on the exam? Does the exam alone prove that you know what your doing?

 

[sleipnir214]

A performance-based examination system is better. You're at least expected to do something, not just talk it to death. But it's still not enough on its own.

No standardized exam can hope to possibly test for the kind of tricks and shortcuts that an experience admin will know. And when my company is losing money because a server is down, I need the person with the most tricks up his sleeve. ______________________________________________________________________
Perfection in engineering does not happen when there is nothing more to add.
Rather it happens when there is nothing more to take away.

 

[geokor]

I understand what sleipnir214 is saying - but I am not asking how do I walk in to a job paying top dollar with maximun responsibility. I am asking how do I break into the administration field period. I am willing to start low and work hard to climb - I've done it before. When I started web designing 3 years ago (right out of school) I knew VB (barely) and some (very little ASP). I now can do CSS, XHTML, JavaScript, some XML, MySQL, Perl, PHP, some Python and some Ruby, as well as HTML in my sleep and CGI. BUT all the linuyx admin jobs I have seen for months want 2-5 years experience. So I keep studying and looking for my break...(sigh)

George K

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